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xtrapol
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Firstly I would just like to say I admire the people in this forum for being so fair and indiscriminate on the issue of mixed marriages. I wish there were more people like you in this world.

Growing up in an international school, many of my school friends were half Indonesian, half Westerners. I too, though not racially obvious, am the product of a mixed marriage. All of us have been discriminated against at some point in our lives. One of my most vivid memories was as a teenager when a half-Indonesian, half Dutch girl carried the Dutch flag for our United Nations day ceremony. I remember two "full" Dutch girls on my school bus one morning complaining about the fact that the girl in question was half Indonesian, and shouldn't be carrying the flag because she wasn't "a real Dutch person". This type of behaviour was a common occurence in our school despite the fact we all socialised with each other - the differences between us were all noticed, and we were all aware of them.

Being half Russian, I've been the brunt of the never-ending "mail-order bride" jokes my whole life. Since I arrived in Australia, the minute I mention the fact my mother's Russian - some twit, no matter how harmless he thinks he's being, makes a joke about my mother being a Russian prostitute, followed up by a "just kiddin', mate". She's not. It's not funny, never has been, and it's plain fucking insulting. Normally I just stand in silence with no expression not wanting to start a fight. On the rare occasion I have reacted angrily I've been told to not be so 'sensitive' !!!

This ugly issue unveiled itself again on Thursday in Australia over the fate of a poor little 5-year-old girl called Manny, injured in the bomb blast outside the Australian embassy. Manny's Indonesian mother was tragically killed in the explosion and her father(s), either an Australian or an Italian man, have both rushed to her bedside in a Singapore hospital. Manny had her story plastered all over the front of newspapers in Australia. What I can't believe is some Australians have been saying things such as "Oh, but she's not really an Australian... " as if the fact she's half Indonesian is some sort of excuse not to take sympathy on the severley injured 5 year old, let alone on the other innocent victims of the blast.

Unfortunately, it's well known the same reaction of some Australians is common throughout the world. Was wondering if anyone else of a mixed marriage feels this way? Any comments....?



xtrapol
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Btw.... that was me... not... forumbot... hehe... she's hot though



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Hi xtrapol,

I am of mixed descent: Dutch-Indonesian, was born in Bogor and grew up in Holland. the first time I was made aware I was "different" from the other Dutch kids was when they called out to me "Hey You, Black one! go back to your country! go back to where you belong"

Just because I am not blue eyed and blond haired, I never thought of myself as being different , untill they started calling me names and started to ask silly questions as "did we live in an actual house before we moved to Holland ( as opposed to living in a tree or a hut? I never understood those questions...)"were there roads and highways where I came from?"
Anyway, later in school, kids would ask me if I was a "halfblooded person"...again that confused me and made me feel "half" or "incomplete" in their eyes...

I am intrigued by mixed cultural upbringing, having 3 kids of my own (Dutch dad) now. So I would like to ask you : what was /is the Russian element in your upbringing? Is your dad Australian? Do you have any brothers/sisters? Do they feel the same? Do you feel "different"? If so, in what way? Has your Russian/Australian upbringing influenced your outlook on life? on the world?

And yes, I read about an Australian 5 yo girl being hurt in the bomb attack, but other news agencies claimed no Australians had been wounded. I wondered about that.
Thanks for clearing that up!

Cindy








xtrapol
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Hey Cindy

Thanks for replying to my message. I知 intrigued by the fact that you also are a child of a mixed marriage and I have all the same questions you asked me and just a few more.

Firstly, I知 amazed by the treatment you received as a kid! I知 sorry that happened to you. Really am. I知 guessing most of the nasty comments that were directed to you were as a child? If so, that痴 the worst time to receive such bullying because it痴 as a child that we develop our personality and I知 sure the discrimination we received somehow shapes our personalities, whether good or bad, we become more defensive, develop a lower self-esteem, or become totally indifferent and tolerant to the issue altogether. Do you feel the same way? Do you still feel 電ifferent in Holland now?

I can imagine how hurtful it must have been to receive such abuse in Holland. I gotta say I never had the same experiences simply because I didn稚 really look different to the other kids at school when I was growing up. It was only around the age of 11 when I became aware that I was different. At this age, we seem to understand and hence use - cultural stereotypes much more, and only then was it that other kids began to make the 然ussian mother jokes. The fact that I was already 11 years old when I noticed this meant that I had already developed much of my own character and although I found the jokes insulting, they never really dented my self-confidence. I really admire how you still seem to be enjoying and moving on with life (as a mother of 3) after how much you appeared to suffer so much during your childhood.




xtrapol
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It was only when I was 18, when I moved from Jakarta to Australia and encountered more and more 電ifference to other Aussies, I discovered a small, yet existing, sense of nationalism for Russia which I never had before. Do you still feel some sort of patriotism for Indonesia?

What is your cultural mix? Is it your mother or father who is Indonesian? I知 interested to know how your Indonesian parent handled living in Holland. I知 also surprised you encountered so much discrimination as a child because I thought, considering Holland痴 history in Indonesia, mixed-race children would have been such a normal part of society that 租ifferent-looking families would have been widely accepted even by kids. My mother immigrated to Australia in the 70痴 and then met my dad 3 years later. She found Jakarta very difficult. The other Australian wives wanted nothing to do with her they saw her as a foreigner with no right to call herself Australian. The Russian mothers considered her a traitor and a whore leaving her country to marry a foreigner. During the 18 years I spent there, my mother developed depression for being shunned so often one of the reasons I get so pissed off over discrimination and narrow-minded pricks (like Budowono has so graciously revealed to us). I have a sister who feels similar, but she tends to not be as aggressive as I am on this issue. What about yourself? Any siblings?

It痴 cool you replied. Thanks again, look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Tony



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Hey Tony,

Thanks for your response, I had typed a reply in return but when I tried to submit the message it said the topic was closed and so somehow the entire message was deleted....

sorry...will get back to you......(if possible)

cheers Emoticon: Smile

Cindy



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Hey Tony,

I will try again....first of all, I 'd like to say that all the things you said about being called names at as a child etc, they are all true...but anyway, kids copy behaviour from the parents and other adults around them.....so I dont really blame those kids, but the parents for not educating the kids.

Anyway, both my parents are campur .....we are called Indische Nederlanders.....there are a lot of us living in Holland, but also across the world, NZ, Australia, California...

And in my case, the actual "mix:" took place about 8 generations ago...when this Dutch sailor set foot on Celebes and married a native indonesian woman.....some of their descendants moved to the island of Ambon and from there to Jawa , and this is about my dad;s side of the family....his mom's dad was an Englishman, her mom was Sundanese and she grew up with her Sundanese family....She married an Indo (of Indo-european descent) , my dad came into this world and he also married an Indo-european woman.....so..there's a lot of "racial mixture" in our fam tree....

Anyway, I feel for your mom , I am sorry to hear about her being depressed cos of the way she was treated by either Australian or Russian women...but I think inspite of how she must have felt she did a good job raising you...she can be proud of her son!

(I say this based on your posts sent to this forum, I read most of them if not all, and I couldnt agree more with them, they all make sense and are very well written/spoken)

Again, thanks for your response, feel free to ask me any more questions....(my yahoo email address is on my profile). I am not sure if this topic is interesting enough for others to read or respond to, so I will just leave it for now.....

salam, Emoticon: Smile

Cindy






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Hi Tony,
Your experience is very similiar with my good friend's children's experience. She is a German from Bavaria who was married with an African American. Her children experienced a harsh discrimination whenever they are visiting their paternal grandparents. It is very hard for them to fit in. They are not black enough to be around the neighborhood where their paternal grandparents live which is predominantly black. At the same time, these children are not welcomed either in white neighborhood because they are mixed race. She choose not to live in Germany either because fear of the discrimination toward black in Germany. Poor children. She decided to settle down in New England, fortunatelly until to this day, they never have any discrimination experience in New England.

Here in US, I also often heard cynical comment about Russian women who married with American. But these comment are not only applied toRussian though; it also applied to many foreigners women who are married with American men. Whenever I heard these comment I just shook my head and walk away. It is useless to confront these people. In my opinion they are just bitter people who do not know any better.

Unfortunatelly the discrimination will always be exist. So my advice is just ignore them. Just be proud of yourself. Be a proud Australian and at same time be a proud Russian.

Peace
maple-leafs



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Apparently its all got to do with looks unfortunately. As Tony said, the offending jokes never start till they find out about his mom being Russian....my eldest son who obviously doesnt look white/Dutch often is being harassed for looking the way he does, apparently cos they cant pinpoint his cultural/racial heritage they call him Dirty Turk/ Ocalan (kurdish freedomfighter) or whatever else they can come up with intended to be offensive. (he is 22 yo)

My 16 yo daughter happens to be blue eyed, dark haired with a fair skin...and she never encountered these problems of being called names...

When I was traveling through the US many many years ago (before I had children) in the company of American Indians with two other Dutch (white) girls, I noticed how none of us were treated with respect by white americans...the indians apparently cos they just never were treated with any respect, my two friends cos they were white who chose to hang out with indians and me cos I could pass for an indian or metis but not white anyway.

Just want to say....we are all equal, we are all human beings no person , no race should feel better than any other person or race based on racial characteristics.....or based on sexual preference....

In Harmony, Emoticon: Smile

salam, Cindy





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Just wondering....anybody else here who wants to share her/his opinion/experience re mixed cultural upbringing?

Would love to hear it.

In Peace,

Cindy

Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



JohanN
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Cindy,
Obvious, a lot of people, including me, experience only the good things about mixed cultures. Otherwise this topic would have a lot more postings. I think this has to do with the cultures & people involved: Dutch & Indonesian. If you post this topic on a forum concerning other mixed cultures, it is another story.
Fact is, Dutch like Indonesian people and Indonesian people like us and this I've seen in both the Netherlands and in Indonesia Raya. I still have not seen otherwise!
I'm not able to respond for the next 2 days, but maybe my posting will activate this topic! Emoticon: Wink
Regards, Johan


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fair enough Johan, so could you tell us more about your personal experience re your mixed cultural background? I am very interested...and I dont mean to stress the bad experiences...I just shared my personal experience and it isnt all bad, ofcourse! Just curious to find out how other people experience their mixed cultural background...which culture is the dominant one? the culture of the country you're living in? are you being raised bilingual? is there an equal interest in either culture? if the mom is indonesian, and living in Holland, how does she raise the kids? What will be the indonesian element (if any) in the upbringing?

just wondering......

kindest regards,

Cindy Emoticon: Smile





JohanN
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Okay, we live in the Netherlands, my girlfriend is from Indonesia, she lives now for 10 years in the Netherlands. We know each other now for 7 years. She is moslim, I'm christian. We have two kids, of which one is already baptised. The other one is only 7 weeks old and will be baptised around xmas. I'm not raised bilingual. I speak dutch, English and Indonesian. Other languages I speak are German (which I can practise again from tomorrow) and French. My girlfriend speaks bahasa Indonesia and several dialects from Indonesia (Cirebon & Jakartan). Furhtermore, she speaks English and Spanish.
I fact, you raise questions which I never raise. If you ask, which culture is dominant, my answer is: I do not know. We live in the Netherlands, so I think it is the culture here. But now 2 uncles of my girlfriend are here for 3 months to visit us. So now, I hear slang talk like 'ini buat Johan' or, instead of 'inti untuk Johan'. Now, an uncle is playing guitar in the evening instead of us watching goede tijden slechte tijden. So your questions does not make any sense to me. It all has to do with time, I think.
So that's it in a nutshell. What do you think?? Emoticon: Shiny


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orchidart
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Anyway, your future Beautiful Princes "Amalia" is also a mixed Belanda-Argentina...;-)




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