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AnisJ
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  • Recently we h'd almost witnessed the crash of the airplane of Turkish Airlines ...... the question rose up to me whether dispite our 'computer age' airplanes are not to be excluded by the 'human aspect' of 'real pilots and their aids' in cabin.

    A while ago a family of mine had a talk with an airplane pilot, in that conversation he stated that basically his job was to control the 'automatic pilot' after he h'd 'given in' in the board computer his coördinates', so in practasy he is able to read his newspaper .... to this pilot the main things to 'check and recheck' the 'landingprocedures' and 'taking-offs' ......

  • Another thing is that if this is possible , the question is possible to ask ourselves that it is possible to 'fly an airlane' without the crew in their cabin ...... is it ???

  • In €urope all the pilots of airplanes are familiair with the existance of military testing sites where they are not possible to 'crossover' .... these are sites for instance where rockets are tested, but some of them are a remain of the 'Cold War period' and useless.


    "Is it possible that the pilot of this Turkish crash incident was in trouble because of a lack of fuel ..... (so this is also possible for an aircraft coming from Indonesia ????)"


  • Thinking about how much fuel we would save if airplanes would cross less militairy testing sites in €urope ..... we could do a lot for the environmental aspect and it would raise also the 'cost effective-ness' of this industry .

    Comparing €urope with the U.$.A it seems that €urope has to many military testing sites where airplanes are not allowed to cross , at least whitout 'official permission' ....





  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    oyibo
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    Is it possible that the pilot of this Turkish crash incident was in trouble because of a leak of fuel ..... (so this is also possible for an aircraft coming from Indonesia ????"

    Until all the data is recovered and investigated it would be speculation as far as this crash. To keep it simple, yes a leaking valve could be a possibility.
    Or a leak in fuel lines or even tanks. Fuel to the engines though is pressured so a leak inthere would trigger an alarm in the cockpit. Like a car an airplane ofcourse has instruments to see the amount of fuel left in the tanks. Beside from the receipt from fuel taken in before take-off, the weight of fuel is also taken into consideration for take off. As one can imagine. Although company's are fuel efficient in these economical times, a plane takes more fuel then just to cover for the route. The route and schedual are plotted prior to take-off on International flights. And there is a minimum amount calculated to cover for more airtime incase of an incident and divertion to an other airport.

    If leaks are identified, the airport of destination is notified.
    And if necessary diverted by other sky control body's keeping track of flights over the continent.

    Sky highways.
    Have been determined for many years. Closed airspaces due to war or other issues means a divertion. But in general the sky highways have been agreed. Fuel efficiency has to come from other means then diverting route.

    Technically speaking a plane could do without a pilot and captain.
    Over the past 25 years electronics in planes, in general reffered to as Avionics has advanced very far. For instance The US and Israel are leaders in this technology are capable of unmanned flights for spying and even bombing missions over very huge disctances. Computer control for instances for a landing procedure in commercial aircrafts is already computerised. Called ILS.Or some reffer to it as ALS.

    It guides the plane until the runway, but landing itself is done by the crew.

    During flight Pilot and Captain do it bit more then just check de flight computer if you want to call it like that. To answer your question on complete electronic flights for commercial use? Company's can design, make and produce a lot of sensors to enable a computer to anticipate outside factors. What this lacks is a human brain and it's capacity. Thats why there is no such thing as complete computerised commercial flights.




    It's only kinky the first time.

    oyibo
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    It's only kinky the first time.

    Jeroen
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    Topic moved to 'Other Talk'



    AnisJ
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  • Is it possible that the pilot of this Turkish crash incident was in trouble because of a leak of fuel ..... (so this is also possible for an aircraft coming from Indonesia ????"


  • I'm so sorry but what I meant to say is a lack of fuel it was a slip of the tongue (in writing of course) ......

  • Actually I was looking on the net for a map showing the sites where commercial airplanes are not allowed to 'cross-over', at least whithout the permission of the militairy officials; someone like you must know this with 'close-contacts' in aircrafting ...... Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes!

    This map would show what kind of problems pilots have of commercial airplanes to navigate in €urope to take-off or land with their aircraft.

  • By the way the whole discussion in the NethS about the JSF, Joint Strike Fighter , is mostly exaggerated if people would realise that at the time it will become 'operable', in militairy industry advanced militairy jetplanes are in use flown by pilots on the ground , using some sort of technology like 'fly-by-wire'(for instance) ......
    Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes!


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    oyibo
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    AnisJ

    Google earth wiill reveal "blackspots" . Just zoom in on a location you know miltairy facility's Emoticon: Wink Anywhere on earth where it is clear enough on google earth pictures.

    Pilots don't have a problem with these locations.
    They are out of route.

    So called unmanned flight controlled by a militairy pilot on ground over longer distances are common practice since 1981. That much I know. The distance then was estimateted at 2000 miles. In practice called a drone. Where the actual pilot is stting in a cabin not boarded the aircraft ! But navigationed by remote control. (Nasa did much better)

    At 30.000 ft it's easy to fly over a restricted zone for commercial flights Emoticon: Wink
    Staff on gorund don't even notice. Emoticon: Wink





    It's only kinky the first time.

    AnisJ
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    Oyibo ,

    Posted Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. 28-02-2009 16:59


  • You are the expert you should know these things .......

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • a lack of fuel ....

    Posted Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. 28-02-2009 12:31


  • Yesterday an expert of the Dutch Industrial Organisation, TNO, confirmed on a Dutch early morning t.v. 'breakfast-programme', a earlier statement done by an American witness of this plane-crash that he h'd seen the airplane landing, a Boeing 737, with its 'nose up & tail-dwown position' ...... this American eye-witness was actually driving away with his car from Schiphol-airport ..... but after realizing this 'seldom seen landing position:

  • 'nose up tail-down' position

    returned back and immediatly was helping passengers 'coming out of the crashed' airplane ........

  • The TNO aircraft expert said, in the same early morning Dutch tv programme, that the story of a Turkish Board of commercial airline-pilots, that the 'crashed airplane' was in a Slipstream of a 757 ahaed landing of the 737 was not valuable, because otherwise it would collapsed the Turkish plane ...... beside it has landed at least 2 minutes ahead of the Turkish plane .......


  • Probably most forum readers recall the 'documaintaries about ' American space-shuttles' like Discovery & Endeavour .

  • These is a 'space-craft' specially designed to 'glide back' to Vandenberg base in California ..... in their 'landing procedures' a 'nose up tail down-position' is often to be seen ...... but this is a part of the procedures ........ and the airplane is specially designed for it .....



  • So the question is valuable whether this airlane was landing 'on one take' because it has not enough fuel to abort and start again a new landing procedure ...... otherwise the pilot was not landing at a maximum of reduction:

    nose up tail-down position ..... assummingly 'flabs down' ......

  • then again the airplane was not on fire ......






  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    oyibo
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    AnisJ,

    There is a lot of speculation.
    Which cannot be seriously contributing on the investigation that is ongoing in fact finding.

    Data will be recovered from the blackboxes. (Which are not black by colour)
    Passenger accounts state that the engines were operational in an attempt to compensate for the loss of hight. So much for passenger accounts on the flight.

    Because it's an American plane by manufactoring a n Amercian team will be send in, or actually are on ground already on behalfe of the manufactorer. To findout the facts leading to this incident. A downwind would be enough to bring any plane down.

    Bigger planes ahead of smaller planes taking off from runways are known to cause a problem, not with landing. Hence the time for take-off and stationary if you are in a smaller aircraft prior to take off if you succeed on a 747. That's all


    It's only kinky the first time.


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