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Gracias. Sama sama
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Well, he saved fuel with the cost of one airplane.
There are a lot of people having an opinion on why Garuda has problems on getting into European airspace. On this forum there is more then one topic related to this. Garuda can buy as much new planes as it wants, it still won't get the permit to acces European airspace. For a longer period of time Garuda's auditing system was reconized as poor, this is one of the finer examples. Despite all other story's on why Garuda is not allowed this is virtually the only proper reason. 
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It's only kinky the first time.
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On 24-07-2008 09:41 oyibo wrote:
Well, he saved fuel with the cost of one airplane.
There are a lot of people having an opinion on why Garuda has problems on getting into European airspace. On this forum there is more then one topic related to this. Garuda can buy as much new planes as it wants, it still wont get the permit to acces European airspace. For a longer period of time Garudas auditing system was reconized as poor, this is one of the finer examples. Despite all other storys on why Garuda is not allowed this is virtually the only proper reason.
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Don't forget the fact that Garuda left the European market 'by them selfe' that time because it was not profitable to fly any longer to Europe!!!
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On 24-07-2008 09:41 oyibo wrote:
* Garuda can buy as much new planes as it wants, it still wont get the permit to acces European airspace.
**For a longer period of time Garudas auditing system was reconized as poor, this is one of the finer examples.
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**Its true , but its the past , now they have new audits from USA , EU etc.
* Indonesia can also take the same action to forbid KLM-Lufthansa flying to Indonesia. 
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Bisa dicek mas .
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" .... why talking and speculating about ' sanctions ' , whilst it is more ' fruitfull' to talk about whether Garuda is able to meet the international safety standards is it ........ ???"
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'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'
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" .... why talking and speculating about ' sanctions ' , whilst it is more ' fruitfull' to talk about whether Garuda is able to meet the international safety standards is it ........ ???"
YES INDEED
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Well, as it seems Garuda does not meet the European safety standards 
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Ja, dezelfde als de mod
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Maybe they don't want El presidente BS to visit the Netherlands next month? He said that he only wants to travel with Garuda planes ....
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Avatar: Maro from Papoea.
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On 24-07-2008 18:22 divodurum wrote:
Maybe they dont want El presidente BS to visit the Netherlands next month? He said that he only wants to travel with Garuda planes ....
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There we go again...complot theories...blame the West... 
The people of Indonesia should be very2 happy that with those EU sanctions, we force Indonesia authorities and airlines to be more strict about air safety. In the end, due to this EU influence a lot of Indonesian lifes will be saved
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Gracias. Sama sama
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Sidia,
Buying new planes doesn't solve Garuda's problem. Even if Garuda hires engineers straight from Boeing. I've seen a variation of opinions why Garuda fails to get approval. Most of them bullocks. You can buy 100's of new Boeings, but if there is a managment decision on saving fuel and instructions and even a bonus passed to the crew for saving fuel, one can only wonder how this passed an auditing system. Your auditing system can come from anywhere in the world. If this is an example of how the auditing system is implemented and executed then one can clearly see where for instance the EU has some problems with Garuda entering it's airspace.
But hey, there are even internet sites with people who have an opinion on this issue. Even want to become specialists  a sort of wannabee's.
Very funny reading crap like that. 
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It's only kinky the first time.
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On 25-07-2008 05:39 oyibo wrote:
but if there is a managment decision on saving fuel and instructions and even a bonus passed to the crew for saving fuel, one can only wonder how this passed an auditing system.
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About saving fuel , all airlines haves thesame policy.
The Ga pilot make it as his excuse for his failure .
Its true that EU have problem with Garuda.
Only who is the EU ?
Malta ? , Rumania ? , Verwegistan ? Luxembourg , or NL ?, Germany ? ,France ? or U.K.?
The last 4 are countries has open sky agreement with Indonesia .Not the EU.
Thats why that Indonesia must forbid KLM - Lufthansa if GA can not fly to German , and Dutch or France space .
Reciprocity principe.
Its only my humble opinion . 
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Bisa dicek mas .
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Sidia,
All airlines have an auditing department.
They should check the consequences for procedures. You can blame this pilot, but that's only one piece of the chain. The EU has no problem with Garuda. It has a problem with the way Garuda approach towards it's auditing.
For every type of plane pilots have to get their certificate, after a number of flying hours with a Captain instructor a pilot goes for simulation testing. When the pilot passes he most certainly is instrucuted on the procedures during take-off and during flight and procedures for landing. Auditing is a safeguard. The incident record so far indicates that auditing fails and safety becomes an issue. Any pilot overriding aircraft systems the way it was done atleast should have their certificates revoked. And should be sentenced. In the chain responsibility Garuda's managment should also held accountable. And even face prison. You know very well who the EU is. I don't see any reason why Indonesia should ban KLM or Lufthansa. This holds no ground.
The Indonesian Government should be smarter and adopt EU rules and regulations and really implement them. Then incidents during flights would decrease significantly. Flying first of all is about safety,and nothing else.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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On 25-07-2008 09:11 oyibo wrote:
*should be sentenced.
*In the chain responsibility Garudas managment should also held accountable. And even face prison.
* I dont see any reason why Indonesia should ban KLM or Lufthansa. This holds no ground.
* agree
*The Indonesian Government should be smarter and adopt EU rules and regulations and really implement them.
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*1000 % agree.
* Agree
* Reciprocity principle.
Indonesia have opensky agremeent with NL, Germany . NOt with E.U.
If Indonesia cannot fly to Amsterdam or Dusseldorf/Frankfurt , why can Dutch and Germans Airlines fly to Indonesia.
Till 2005 Garuda International is flying to Europe , "without" restriction.
*I know a little bit (secuil) from stories abt pilot certificates , (international) refressingcources etc .
In the past I had some people / relatives who are working at GA .
As Chief Instructor at Curug , Direktor Operasi GA or something like that , and Pilot (supir) B-747
A story : 1979
I am walking at Kalverstraat Amsterdam.
Very suprised to met a younger friend of mine.
He is pilot DC 10 , and trying to get another certificates.
I am very surprised because 10 yrs ago he was sent to the LTS , because his SMP diploma was "not good enough "for his study at the MTS in the Netherlands.
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Bisa dicek mas .
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