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matthew
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor(...)americas/7476927.stm

A wealthy New York woman has been sentenced to 11 years in jail for keeping two Indonesian women as slaves.

Varsha Mahender Sabhnani, 46, and her husband Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani, 51, kept them as slaves and abused them physically and psychologically.




AnisJ
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On 27-06-2008 16:56 matthew wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor(...)americas/7476927.stm

A wealthy New York woman has been sentenced to 11 years in jail for keeping two Indonesian women as slaves.
Varsha Mahender Sabhnani, 46, and her husband Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani, 51, kept them as slaves and abused them physically and psychologically.


  • " .... what defination is there for an American, if your family-name is Sabhnani .... what family-names do the victims have .... "



  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    matthew
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    On 27-06-2008 17:06 AnisJ wrote:

    ...


  • " .... what defination is there for an American, if your family-name is Sabhnani


  • They are both US citizens.

    The woman was the one being abusive. They are both Indian-born, but the woman grew up in Indonesia. I guess that is why he decided to get Indonesian servants. There are a lot of Indonesian women being abused by Asians and Arabs as servants.



    oyibo
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    Barbarians that should be prosecuted, even the husband can't wash his hands in innocence. Things like these can't have escaped his attention so he is responsible and should be kept responsible also.

    Stealing from a dustbin?

    The defenition is born from parents that live or lived in America.
    Like Obama for instance. Emoticon: Party!




    It's only kinky the first time.

    oyibo
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    Or alternatively, a US citizen doesn't necessarily mean they are born in the States, but have a legal status to work and live in the US. Emoticon: Party!


    It's only kinky the first time.

    benny2000
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    On 28-06-2008 04:23 oyibo wrote:
    Barbarians that should be prosecuted, even the husband cant wash his hands in innocence. Things like these cant have escaped his attention so he is responsible and should be kept responsible also.


    Sure they must be responsible but what to do about the numerous maids who steal from their bosses here ?

    Shouldn t they be responsible and jailed but by luck there is no law enforcement here except maybe when policemen and judges can find some $$ benefitsfor themselves ?

    There are also many cases where Indonesian maids (considerably more than filipino maids) do not need any training Emoticon: Laugh out loud to become barbarians :

    - Maid had sex with Hong Kong employer's son, 14, after watching porn
    - Hong Kong Indonesian maid jailed for serving urine
    - An Indonesian maid in Hong Kong has been accused of allowing a teenager to abuse a girl aged five in her care in return for money Emoticon: Stupid



    AnisJ
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    Benny yth.,

  • " .... what is your background ..... ???"

  • " .... so the Indonesian maid is the 'wrong element' in this whole story is it; for you gave these examples:


    - Maid had sex with Hong Kong employer's son, 14, after watching porn
    - Hong Kong Indonesian maid jailed for serving urine
    - An Indonesian maid in Hong Kong has been accused of allowing a teenager to abuse a girl aged five in her care in return for money

    Posted Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. 16-07-2008 04:27


    And:


    There are also many cases where Indonesian maids (considerably more than filipino maids) do not need any training to become barbarians ...



    " .... what kind of logic is this , Benny ...... this is something substantialy wrong making right - is it; and you know that do'nt you ...... ???"



  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    oyibo
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    People found guilty for stealing should also undergo what is called a correction and under normal circumstances if reported they certainly will.

    But that on it's own has got virtually nothing to do with what is discussed in this topic, nor should it be a reason or prejudice.

    And the last is what I feel a bit in your reply. Do you really think that is only restricted to Indonesian housekeepers, wake up, it happens in the rest of the world too. In that respect AnisJ is correct. But I wouldn't make any comparison to people coming from any other country.


    It's only kinky the first time.

    sglange
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    "High" caste Indians look down on those below them as dirt hence their treatment towards their Indonesian maids does not surprise me at all. T



    benny2000
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    No there is no excuse for what they did but sentence is probably a bit harsh. I believe not so many American families will hire an Indonesian maids now !

    This type of situation in unfortunately common in middle east countries also and maids are generally the victims but ... not always.


    However, I am new here and I am surprised about all the terrible stories/problems I have heard with Indonesian maids (including http://www.thejakartapost.com/(...)-pinang-murders.html) and since I have been living in several countries in Asia, I can make a comparison. I just pointed out a few terrible situations but I must say that I heard from my friends here endless examples of maids stealing, threatening or blackmailing their bosses and I believe maids working for foreign families are not the victims here ! Even When you go to see the Police to report but nothing happen ! Is it normal ? Is it also acceptable ? Why nothing can be done ?
    In many western countries, a foreigner (Indonesian maid) can get a very good protection from a resident (American citizen) from the authorities but why it is not the case here ?
    This is my point !!!



    sidia
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    On 18-07-2008 01:43 benny2000 wrote:
    No there is no excuse for what they did but sentence is probably a bit harsh.
    I believe not so many American families will hire an Indonesian maids now !

    This type of situation in unfortunately common in middle east countries also and maids are generally the victims but ... not always.

    However, ........ bla bla bla .
    This is my point !!!

    Probably a bit harsh ???
    You are kidding .
    Maybe you forgotten we are living in the 21th century.

    Yes , unfortunately common in middle east or country of origines of migrants who become new americans.
    But not common in America.
    Time is change . They have no more modern slaves in the USA .

    Yes , you make yr point , there are also thieves among the maids , and also slaveholders among the so called civilised wealthy people.


    Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

    benny2000
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    It is harsh according to the fact that if those maids had been in the same situation in their own country... which means 2 maids coming to Jakarta from their remote provinces suiting a millionnaire Indonesian family living in Menteng or in Pondok Indah !
    Honestly, tell me what kind of sentence those rich Indonesians would get here ? How many years of jail and how many millions $ the 2 pembantu would get ?



    sidia
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    On 18-07-2008 09:30 benny2000 wrote:
    It is harsh according to the fact that if those maids had been in the same situation in their own country ....... bla bla bla

    Honestly, tell me what kind of sentence those rich Indonesians would get here ?...... bla blabla


    Whua whua whua (L.O.L)

    You tell me ?


    Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

    havana45
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    Yes,there is modern slavery in the U.S.What about the prisoners?They are "Forced"to do hard labour.But this is legal because the goverment is involved.There is a saying Emoticon: Sadley teel a crown and you are reworded,steel an apple and you get punished.



    benny2000
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    I suppose a one way ticket by bus to their remote province... if they are lucky and quick ?!

    ...which would not be normal neither because they do deserve some compensation mainly for the bad treatments but everyone know that North American sentences in this kind of situation are often ridiculous Emoticon: Stupid like the recent one in Canada who almost got $345000 because the guy "claimed that he became depressed, anxious and phobic after finding a a dead fly in a bottle of water..." !!! (judgement overturned at the end by the top court but it was close).
    I found strange that most Indonesians ppl think that this sentence is fair because we are in the 21th and it happens abroad but do not request/require Emoticon: Laugh out loud the same kind of law enforcement from their own justice |:!
    There is an interesting article on Jakarta post today page 6 "protecting workers' rights abroad begin at home..."




    Albert
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    Is this not the same in which SBY intervered?

    If so, why does he not open his mouth when the maids come back from middle east. Burned, raped, you name it and the did it to them.
    You hear nobody saying from now one we no longer send the maids. Or we demand this or that family to be put in jail?




    Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

    sidia
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    On 19-07-2008 06:47 Albert wrote:
    You hear nobody saying from now one we no longer send the maids. Or we demand this or that family to be put in jail?


    Albert, pse read Indonesian newspaper or at least Jakarta Post.


    Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

    Albert
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    On 19-07-2008 08:21 sidia wrote:

    ...

    Albert, pse read Indonesian newspaper or at least Jakarta Post.

    Why you wish to tell me it all has changed. All Middle East bosses are being put into Jail.
    SBY sees to it in person?
    An article in the newspaper is nice. But how many maids are being a victim everyday?


    Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

    benny2000
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    On 19-07-2008 06:47 Albert wrote:
    Is this not the same in which SBY intervered?

    If so, why does he not open his mouth when the maids come back from middle east. Burned, raped, you name it and the did it to them.


    He did not open his mouth because he perfectly knows the weakness of the developped western countries ! He knows that we value "human rights" and try to built a fair society where men are women are equal, where white, yellow and black are equal, where poor ppl have the same legal rights than poor ppl so....
    in a case where there are poor Indonesian women involved, it is a big "test" for a western country (specially as proud as itself as the USA) and your President believed that with some pressure he could turn a not exceptionnal situation (for maids in many Asian/middle east) into a high profile case and so he can show that he can be successul in doing something. He makes Indonesian ppl proud that in a country such as the US, 2 poor Indonesians maid could win against powerful US millionnaires ! It feels good that Indonesians win sometimes.

    However, the truth is that there are very few Indonesian maids in the US or in Western Europe (compared to Asian countries) , a such case with bad treatments is very very rare there (compared to Asian countries) and after that, I am not sure after that ppl will think twice before hiring an Indonesian maid in a western country but once again I fully support a compensation for the maids and a punishment for the bosses as long at it was not unreasonnable ! Unfortunately, this sentence could not serve as an exemple for Asian/middle East countries because it is too far from what is possible/applicable in terms of justice in such countries.

    On the contrary, your President know that any critics against rich middle east countries could seriously affect the relationship between Indonesia and much richer countries and consequently affect the economy of Indonesia (who do not need that). If the recession get harder on Indonesia, he will have to face much instability and troubles and I am not sure he wants to take that risk for a bunch of maids. There is no disrespect or offense but just a disturbing truth !



    AnisJ
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    Benny yth.,

    At least what western countries should do is, to show other countries, their different and more 'advanced aproach for basic rights', is it ..... ???


    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    benny2000
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    Completely agree but as I said, to serve as an example, sentence should have been reasonnable/understandable/acceptable (as perceived by most Asian/middle east bosses) so I believe a sentence from a western european country which would have never been that far, could have served better as an example. As many other sentences given in the US (like the example of the fly) can only serve as example within the US because it is too much disconnected from most judicial bodies in Asian/middle east countries and even to European justice.
    I am afraid the only message ppl will hear is "never hire an Indonesian maid" (outside Indonesia) because they are troubles !
    As an example, many expats in Asia take their maids back home to help them just for summer. It is not legal (at least in Europe) but it is a lifetime opportunity for a maid and most/all of them are not even dreaming about it. Most of ppl will consider more the risk now, everybody loose.



    louen
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    That's terrible. You hear of these things happening from time to time, its actually quite sad that a human being can do that to another human.




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