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Always thought that the warnings for the sneaky ways many Balinese try to enrich themselves at the expense of the westerners was exaggerated. After my last visit however I doubt whether I need to review my way of thinking. Also I was made the fool. This is the story how.

For celebrating my birthday I had planned a nice dinner at Jimbaran at Nyomans Café. Just some friends over from Holland and the Balinese family that always arrange everything for me when I am on Bali. My Balinese friend went to Nyomans the day before to make reservations and barging about the price.

In the meanwhile with my Dutch friends I met some Balinese friends of them. She the owner of Cozy Massage and him the owner of Campur Campur Warung, both successful businesses in Kuta. A nice couple, friendly and helpful. They invited us at a BBQ at their house, gave us a discount at Cozy’s, so just people we got to like. So we also invited them to the Jimbaran dinner.

At the dinner our new met friend offered to go with me to order and select the seafood. Because the long last Balinese friend was engaged in conversation I agreed. Everything went just the way it should and it was just as I had hoped it would be.

The day after however came the hangover and unfortunately not from the alcohol. The friend who has arranged the dinner for me was approached by the drivers how brought us to Jimbaran. They didn’t got their usual fee of Nyoman’s. Noyman’s told them that he had given the fee to the man how was with me when selecting the food.

So what has happened. When selecting the food, our new found friend has told the staff in Behasa Bali that we were his “guests” and that he was the one that had the right on commission. So at the end I paid the full price, the next day he went back for the commission, the drivers mistrusted mine old friend of whom they thought has received the money from Nyoman’s, and the mine old friend was embarrassed to tell me that I had been fooled.

Now a few days later, back in The Netherlands, I received a sms from the real Balinese friend. The owner of Campur Campur has promised to refund the money he sneaky had received. So money-wise the problem is resolved. What remains is the nasty feeling of being fooled by a so-called succesful man who enriches himself at the expense of friends of his friends as well as drivers who need the money much more then he does.



Oud worden op bali? www.whitedolphins.nl or www.whitedolphins.net

belgianguy
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that`s how it is in bali, it´s all about commissions, anybody who goes anywhere with a driver or a ´friend´ will pay, directly or indirectly...



Lacey
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This not only happening in Bali. They happen throughout Indonesia on a daily basis. Whether your friend is a Balinese, Javanese or Chinese, etc. Indonesia is so corrupted. Don't feel bad - just remember not to trust someone easily as there will always be a catch when they offer to help. Shame but its just the way it is.



belgianguy
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so true
the problem is when you live here too long, you become too cynical
in the end you don´t wanna trust anyone anymore
you are always looking for the catch somewhere




Nemesis
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The bottom line is: don't mix business with friendship in Indonesia. Keep your wallet closed with friends and family.


Amore, more, ore, re, probantur amicitiae. Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes.

zannehow
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Well, my experience is very different. Mostly, Indonesian people have been exceedingly generous to me...so much so sometimes that I feel embarrassed by the whole thing. Yes, I am aware of the problems and difficulties of doing business in Indoensia - but my experience has generally been good. Perhaps it is just that I move in academic, intellectual and arts circles where ethics operate on a different level. Perhaps it is that I go to Indonesia with specfic interests and purposes - never usually for holidays. But I don't think so.... for example, the driver I use in Yogya gives me an good rate and goes that extra mile. And even going back to the time when I lived in Sumatra in the 1990's my experiences were mostly good. Sure there are the times when I have been ripped off, but they have been balanced by good experiences...and I have had the good fortune to meet an exceedingly wide range of people. Oh yes and another thing - I don't usually try to screw people down on price - sometimes a little bargaining - mostly because the exchange rate from Oz dollars to rupiah is so reasonable that I come out on top anyway.

And another thing, when Indonesians come visiting to Australia, I always try to repay their generosity...it goes along way.



sidia
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On 24-05-2008 07:50 zannehow wrote:
Well, my experience is very different. Mostly, Indonesian people have been exceedingly generous to me...so much so sometimes that I feel embarrassed by the whole thing.

Yes, I am aware of the problems and difficulties of doing business in Indoensia - but my experience has generally been good.

Perhaps it is just that I move in academic, intellectual and arts circles where ethics operate on a different level.

Sure there are the times when I have been ripped off, but they have been balanced by good experiences... and I have had the good fortune to meet an exceedingly wide range of people.


Perhaps it is just that I move in academic, intellectual and arts circles where ethics operate on a different level.


Yes , indeed , different level , different experience
No further comments. Emoticon: Yes!


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

kiwimave
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On 24-05-2008 08:30 sidia wrote:

...


Perhaps it is just that I move in academic, intellectual and arts circles where ethics operate on a different level.


Yes , indeed , different level , different experience
No further comments. Emoticon: Yes!


I absolutely agree. In the high social class (academic etc, NOT new money) values are very high generally


Gracias. Sama sama

sidia
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On 24-05-2008 09:29 kiwimave wrote:

...


I absolutely agree. In the high social class (academic etc, NOT new money) values are very high generally

Please , spread the word.
(zegt het voort , zeg het voort ).l


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Yogya-Bali
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On 24-05-2008 08:30 sidia wrote:

...


Perhaps it is just that I move in academic, intellectual and arts circles where ethics operate on a different level.
Yes , indeed , different level , different experience
No further comments. Emoticon: Yes!


That is so true. It is something I already try to explain to foreigners for almost 2 decades. But mostly with a strong rejection about my "hierarchy" and "class"-thinking. It's not the way I think, it is just the way things go overhere.




Vinie
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I went eating one evening 'alone' to jimbarang to check how the place was, had my own car.

Few days later i went with 8 persons from my hotel and rented a taxi-van with driver...............wel wel.

I told the driver to go to jimbarang so we could eat on the beach in the sand.
Wel he drove us to Three other places(friend restaurants) and de the time it took to get us there was twice that i needed with my car. So at a certain point i had enough of it and said. You drive us to the place i told you, or you take place in the passenger seat and i drive myself. Than suddenly he knew the way Emoticon: Shiny . He stayed there wile we were eating and drove us back to the hotel. We payed him and the price was not so high.



louen
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Surely, not all Indonesians are the same. I have not yet been to Indonesia but I have met some lovely Indonesian people here in Australia. Maybe the people that have migrated here are different.



indoboy7
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Westerners coming to INdonesia (not just Bali) should ALWAYS be aware that money attracts all kinds of people.IN all my travels, Being born in colonial times has given me good insights to Indonesian society, I have developed a great working relationship with my guide. I give him a sum of money to take care of the daily expenses, and he lets me know when the money starts to run low..He is painfully honest, and I can trust him implicitly.It also helps to have an open mind about Indonesia and its people. I have traveled 3x across Java, ending up in Bali and have only pleasant memories to look back on...Meeting Indonesian people from all walks of life has been a tremendously positive experience for me and my travel companions.The individual's basic attitude sets the tone for his/hers experiences...



pratama
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More often than not, comments over here are written in bad English.

I can't fathom how some forum members are so brilliant at generating ideas, yet can't write correct English

Only guna2 writes correct English







senior
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As long everbody understand eachother, i don't see the problem... this is not high school


hati hati, pelan pelan

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Adoeh , mie onli Tarsan englis . Emoticon: Blush


bisa dicek of makemyday .

senior
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mie goreng?? Emoticon: Stupid


hati hati, pelan pelan

oyibo
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Can we go back ontopic?


It's only kinky the first time.

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As an expat or non-Balinese living in Bali you don't want and you don't need Balinese "friends". Keep your relationship with locals strictly limited to the level of "acquaintances" and you'll be spared a lot of problems.

The whole Balinese community works on a "quid pro quo" concept, even amongst eachother. There is always the "kickback" to someone who bring business to someone else. And, Balinese have no problems with making some money for themselves at the expense of their friends.









If you have nothing to loose, you can risk everything

guna2
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On 14-12-2009 05:35 Amed East Bali wrote: As an expat or non-Balinese living in Bali you don't want and you don't need Balinese "friends".

Now this is exactly why I don't want to live in Bali. Thank you, Amed EB, for pointing this out.
I didn't move to Indonesia to mix up with Westerners, I went to Indonesia to live in the Indonesia of the Indonesians. And here in Yogya, that's quite possible.



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On the other hand, we do have friends here in Bali who come from Lombok, Java, Sumatra and Sulawesi. So, still plenty of Indonesians to socialise with, but in a different way then one would do with the Balinese.


If you have nothing to loose, you can risk everything

guna2
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On 14-12-2009 06:16 Amed East Bali wrote:
On the other hand, we do have friends here in Bali who come from Lombok, Java, Sumatra and Sulawesi. So, still plenty of Indonesians to socialise with, but in a different way then one would do with the Balinese.

I wonder how many people migrated to Holland just to mix up with other foreigners, like Moroccans, Turks, and Surinamese... And to the Balinese, your Javanese, Sumatrans, and Sasaks are `foreigners.'



alterity
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you made the mistake of using a middleman. Don't.

Simply go the restaurant yourself and ask directly for a discount of say 20% if you have a group of people. Simple.



cabrio
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People, be honest and don't bring this as a Balinees problem !! This happens every where, also in our "Western countries".

Where ever tourist guides and/or travel agents are involved there are commissions or fees to be paid to them. If you don't, they don't come with guests/groups/...
When in tourist cities as London, Brugge, Paris, Amsterdam, ... you want to get tourist from the guides and travel agents, you pay them also. Some need a commission based on the sales, others need a fixed fee per pax, ...

I love Bali and I always travel with a friend and he is a tourist guide in Bali, well I always get the commission refunded from him. Emoticon: Puh!




sabar2
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I agree not to call this a Balinees problem.
You just have to be aware always, you are "a foreigner" (a milkcow)
Some people will always try to get something extra.
It's a way of life; hussling.

I don't blame anybody, probably I would do the same if I was in that economic position.




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