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On 18-05-2008 04:11 marcel70 wrote:

...


Mmm benar sekali
Wis ya itu

What Nemessis write is a a rule what only comes out after you realy understand the Javaanse people.
It very important not to live in a mimpi terus

Pareng

My god, is it because I live in a big city and not in a small village that i experience it very different
It sounds to me very kampungan..

Btw,: i'm impressed with your bahasa marcel....

Je klinkt bijna als een indonesier.... he he he

Greetz




sidia
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On 18-05-2008 05:19 dutchguy1000 wrote:

...


Btw,: im impressed with your bahasa marcel....

Je klinkt bijna als een indonesier.... he he he

Greetz



Bahasa Englis , Bahasa Belanda or Bahasa Indonesia.?
Mie toe , ayem pery impresip wit his bahasa .

Fully integrated , but be aware before he going to be assimilated.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

marcel70
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Mas Londoh
Matur suwun




Becik ketitik olo Ketoro

marcel70
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Pa sidia
Benar peduli apa gak?
Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused

Emoticon: I love it


Becik ketitik olo Ketoro

Veer01
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Other people than dutch often lay more emotion in their voice-level.We are used to talk low and softer and they will raise the volume and tone of theis voice if they are talking more emotional.Same as with a person dying for instance...where we are less emotional and keep our feelings to ourselves they will more show their true feelings in the open.I think it's all a mater of culture. Emoticon: Yes!



sidia
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On 18-05-2008 17:48 Veer01 wrote:
Other people than dutch often lay more emotion in their voice-level.We are used to talk low and softer and they will raise the volume and tone of theis voice if they are talking more emotional.

Are you sure?

I have lived more than 30 yrs among "common people", .
In several " Big Cities " in Holland .
The k last 25-30 yrs in Amsterdam.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Nemesis
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Amsterdam is "famous" for their big mouth, within the Netherlands. More to the east & south the mouth is "smaller". But I think our Dutch speaking friends in Belgium are more polite than the Dutch... Emoticon: Yes!


Amore, more, ore, re, probantur amicitiae. Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes.

Veer01
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Okay,but what i mean is that we dutch don't easy show our emotions in public like other people.Sometimes I regret that when it comes to things like losing a member of family for instance...where we don't show what we really feel. Emoticon: Yawn



XtraJoss
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Right on Nemisis, Indonesians DO come in two kinds. The ones that think they are LESS important than you and the ones that think they are MORE important than you. The ones that think they are less important are extremely polite; the ones that think they are more important than you, extremely impolite.

Fortunately most Indonesians are polite and do NOT place themselves above others. UNfortunately, the few that do place themselve above others, are the ones you meet in hotels and luxe restaurants.







oyibo
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I fail to see the two kinds. Could be life, but I never met Indonesians thinking they are more or less. I meet people, in work and restaurants and hotels.
And speaking about beeing polite? We could learn from it. Difference in culture. But there you go. Emoticon: Party!


It's only kinky the first time.

federico31
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To sidia: My use of Bahasa Indonesia (Melayu, in fact) is limited to the loose words and sentences that my memory retains from 15 years of childhood spent on Java. Regarding the Bahasa Jawa/Sunda, I know of the existence of three vocabularies, according to the social status of the persons involved. Until to-day, when I read your posting, I thought that involved three levels. But you mentioned eight levels. Does that mean that, for instance when a cabinet minister, a sultan, a bupati and a citizen refer to a palace, each of them must use a specific term depending on whom he is addressing himself to? - If I understood it well, could you give me some examples? If I am mistaken, thank you in advance for your putting me on the right path of this interesting phenomenon.



Pistebunny
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To generelazed human being (men , women, the young ones and the olds, black, white) will never work. I have 4 older brother in law and they are all very well educated gentlemen and yet none of them are alike in characteristic manner.


Winter lover : o )

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On 09-08-2008 23:39 federico31 wrote:
But you mentioned eight levels. Does that mean that, for instance when a cabinet minister, a sultan, a bupati and a citizen refer to a palace, each of them must use a specific term depending on whom he is addressing himself to? - If I understood it well, could you give me some examples?.

Yes . in general they have 3 level ,:
1. Ngoko = for common people ,men in the street or between good friends (very informal) .
2.Krama = half formal , between "educated" people , or "higher"class people
3..Madya , combination of Krama and Ngoko
4. Krama Inggil ( around 300 words)
5.Kedaton : "Palace" language .
etc .

For example you come from the so called priyayi (nobility) level you speak of course Krama .
Depends on the occasion ( informal-semi formal or formal) you have always 3 level ,lowwer rank / younger , same rank , same age and older an higher in rank .

In Sunda , almost with the same socialstructure , I can say aing = me ("ngoko" ) to a persoon lower in social ranking.
The "lower" persoon , must say abdi= me (krama) to a higher persoon .

S.Atmadja aka Sidia


bisa dicek of makemyday .

nonsri
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On 17-05-2008 17:38 monyet wrote:
Holland is quite the opposite of Indonesia in this respect as here it's usually the waiters and waitresses being rude to customers! Emoticon: Laugh out loud
Emoticon: Laugh out loud Hayaaaahhhh!!




Peace Out,

nonsri
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On 16-05-2008 18:33 Lacey wrote:
I owned an Indonesian Restaurant. I loved my business but yet hate dealing with Indonesians, although I am Indonesian myself.

I just wished that Indonesians will learn how to be more polite. Less of the shouting. If its not your turn, wait. Stop being abrupt. Stop behaving like money will buy everything. Stop thinking that you could shout at me like your maid in Indonesia - just because I serve in the restaurant. I own the restaurant and the door is at the front, please exit as I don't need you. Money don't buy everything. If you want to eat my food, be nice to me and I might serve you. Teach your children how to behave too or they will end up like you one day.

Anyway, of course I have been stressed out by some rude Indonesian today. Yes of course and she was an Indo lady - grumpy dumpy and ugly with track suit pants - urgh. I do food delivery and she was rude to me. So, thats it. If you think you're rich and you could get away behaving that way ..cook your own darn food tomorrow as we're done!

Learn to say 'Please', learn to say 'Thank You', learn to say 'Excuse Me'. Magic words will take you a long way and they're not that hard to say.

Can Indonesians learn to be more polite???





Are you describing yourself young lady Emoticon: Wink ? (kidding Non). There lots of Indonesian coming from different background. You might just unlucky met unkind Indonesian person. Myself thought that foreigners were difficult to be polite. From my experiences when i lived in Bali, found out how crazy they were, behaved like a monkey and even worst than that. I was certainly wrong, wrong to judge them been rude, wrong to judge them as immoral people. I only thought that only asian people know how to behave. And again, i was wrong.

I meet some of bad Indonesians, bad Ozys, Bad Europeans, bad Americans, bad Africans. But it only some or even little maybe. I can't judge all of them are bad because of my experience, can i Emoticon: ?

Peace out,
JengSri


Peace Out,

ghozali
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Hi Lacey,

You looks very hate them Emoticon: Smile , just take a simple thing, bill them extra charge, or say this " i am sorry, could you out of from HERE !!! or i call police ". simple right?

don't include me as rude people , Tuan ato Nyonya Lacey.
many kinds of people characteristics in the world. not only Indonesians, in other countries also. it all depends how you face the business. as restaurant is is just like marketing/sales position.

Emoticon: Bye bye
Salam hangat dai Jepara, Indonesia


life in fresh small village, nice!

Irdxb
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Be patience brother.....maybe she had a bad day....during a visit to your restaurant...forgive & be forgiven...Salam dari Qatar Emoticon: Bye bye



Yogya-Bali
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On 28-07-2008 13:48 XtraJoss wrote:
Right on Nemisis, Indonesians DO come in two kinds. The ones that think they are LESS important than you and the ones that think they are MORE important than you. The ones that think they are less important are extremely polite; the ones that think they are more important than you, extremely impolite.

Fortunately most Indonesians are polite and do NOT place themselves above others. UNfortunately, the few that do place themselve above others, are the ones you meet in hotels and luxe restaurants.

From which planet do you come from? Nemesis is the only one who describes the attitude of the Indonesians 100% concerning politeness. The rest is nonsens about talking that you may not generalize the whole population. It is a fact that - concerning politeness - it is general: here it is a group orientated society with a very sharp and strong hierarchy (which u as a foreigner don't notice that much, but is feld by Indonesians every minute of the day).



monyet
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There's some truth in that and actually, having travelled a lot for my work, I can say that similar cultural aspects can be seen in other countries with strong hierarchies. My wife often told me about the lack of respect for women in Indonesia in general, but you can see hierarchical behaviour in many aspects of Indonesian life. Your sopir in Indonesia will never join you for dinner, because he feels that that is inappropriate, being such a humble person.
In cultural teachings, we refer to that as "power distance". Indonesia has a relatively great power distance, whereas the Netherlands is quite the opposite! In the Netherlands children may call their parents by the first name, policemen are hardly treated with respect and no one in public transport stands up for older people. Everyone being considered more equal, like in the Netherlands, can therefore have positive, but also negative aspects. The same goes for countries where the opposite applies.


From Dayeuhkolot with love

Jantje
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Monyet wrote:
Your sopir in Indonesia will never join you for dinner, because he feels that that is inappropriate, being such a humble person.

And so it should be!
the bule has to show him the way in his own country because he doesn't know where to go..
Who the hell wants somebody like that to join for dinner!!
This is only one of those cultural aspects and I know many more!
Emoticon: Smile



bedoel
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Lacey, I suggest you post it at some indo community sites. better at indo-oz communities.

i myself often eat at restaurants and see some people act impolite. i can't understand if people can behave well how they just choose to be jerks. well some orang asing also do ugly things only not at restaurants usually.

that'd be constructive enough i think, and see if your restaurant will be clean of indonesians (you only need nice customers anyway).

O and, don't forget to name your restaurant.



rizferd
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On 16-05-2008 18:33 Lacey wrote:
I owned an Indonesian Restaurant. I loved my business but yet hate dealing with Indonesians, although I am Indonesian myself.

I just wished that Indonesians will learn how to be more polite. Less of the shouting. If its not your turn, wait. Stop being abrupt. Stop behaving like money will buy everything. Stop thinking that you could shout at me like your maid in Indonesia - just because I serve in the restaurant. I own the restaurant and the door is at the front, please exit as I don't need you. Money don't buy everything. If you want to eat my food, be nice to me and I might serve you. Teach your children how to behave too or they will end up like you one day.

Anyway, of course I have been stressed out by some rude Indonesian today. Yes of course and she was an Indo lady - grumpy dumpy and ugly with track suit pants - urgh. I do food delivery and she was rude to me. So, thats it. If you think you're rich and you could get away behaving that way ..cook your own darn food tomorrow as we're done!

Learn to say 'Please', learn to say 'Thank You', learn to say 'Excuse Me'. Magic words will take you a long way and they're not that hard to say.

Can Indonesians learn to be more polite???





Hi Lacey these kind of people are between us they're not only indonesian, chinese, dutch, french, russian, etc... but it's their own attitude who never learn how hard life is and never know how to respect others cause they even hate theirselves...
but do not forget there's more kind people who will make you happy by respecting you as the owner by your kindness and service and you'll forget this bad ones soon cause i'm still studying and working in hospitallity in 5 stars hotel in Holland and i experience this kind of things every single day and the best way just smile at them nicely and stay calm and show them who's the boss Emoticon: Smile without being angry Emoticon: Smile




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