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at2ndsight
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I would like to know what's dutch type (person/people) if I / we work with them in Indonesia. What is different in Holland?
Best, 
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Posted @ 09-05-2008 11:59 |
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sidia
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The opposite of this :
(from another topic) .
De Indonesiër is onbeschoft
De Indonesiër is vulgair
De Indonesiër is onbeleefd
De Indonesiër kan slecht organiseren
De Indonesiër is gek op chaos
De Indonesiër denkt selectief
De Indonesiër is onduidelijk ( verbergt wat hij echt wil ect.. )
De Indonesiër is goed in dingen verzinnen
De Indonesiër is dom
De Indonesiër is jaloers
De Indonesiër is ondankbaar
De Indonesiër is intolerant
in NL weet je snel wie je vrienden zijn. hier niets anders dan leugens.
De Indonesiër steelt gewoon
De Indonesiër is liever lui dan er zelf hard voor te werken
I have many years working experience with the dutch .
Berpengalaman puluhan tahun . 
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Posted @ 09-05-2008 12:54 |
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monyet
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Dutch expats (Dutchmen working abroad) tend to be a special type of Dutch. They can be considered arrogant and may be very keen to show how quickly and easily they take decisions.
Dutch people generally don't like to socialise with colleagues. After working hours, they tend to go home rather than going to a bar or restaurant with some colleagues.
Power distance is very low in Dutch culture. Examples of this are children calling their parents by the first name, citizens joking around with police men and calling their queen "Bea", their crown prince "Wim-Lex" and princess "Max" and at work there is very little hierarchical distance between workers and their superiors (everyone has a say).
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From Dayeuhkolot with love
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Posted @ 09-05-2008 13:50 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Hmm, Monyet, I meet a lot of expats.
Most of them have a drink before they go home.
Or back to hotel. Generally I don't hear Bea but if the subject is the Queen or the prince normally reffered to as the Royal house.
There is hierarchie, and especially on projects.
I've not seen family's so far where a father or mother is called by there first name. But then ofcourse I have might been in other places.
As the not regular expat, I'm going out for dinner now, so I will give my version of expat tomorrow morning
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It's only kinky the first time.
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(Moderated) Posted @ 09-05-2008 13:57 |
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sidia
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On 09-05-2008 17:01 at2ndsight wrote:
Ok, Oyibo...I am waiting your version of expat. Selamat makan ..... 
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Of course if possible only the dutchies.
Silahkan
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(Edited) Posted @ 09-05-2008 19:05 |
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marcel70
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On 09-05-2008 12:54 sidia wrote:
The opposite of this :
(from another topic) .
De Indonesiër is onbeschoft
De Indonesiër is vulgair
De Indonesiër is onbeleefd
De Indonesiër kan slecht organiseren
De Indonesiër is gek op chaos
De Indonesiër denkt selectief
De Indonesiër is onduidelijk ( verbergt wat hij echt wil ect.. )
De Indonesiër is goed in dingen verzinnen
De Indonesiër is dom
De Indonesiër is jaloers
De Indonesiër is ondankbaar
De Indonesiër is intolerant
in NL weet je snel wie je vrienden zijn. hier niets anders dan leugens.
De Indonesiër steelt gewoon
De Indonesiër is liever lui dan er zelf hard voor te werken
I have many years working experience with the dutch .
Berpengalaman puluhan tahun .
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Please Ome sid
Share the experience!!
Jangan Takut loh!!!
Kita Belajar sami sami 
But Ps: This topic is in Ingris Pa
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(Edited) Posted @ 10-05-2008 05:51 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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 2sight,
From experience, and that is near 20 years now I see 2 sorts of expats.
The onces that work on a rotational, like 3 months work and 3 weeks off.
Or similar 2 months on and 2 weeks off. Generally these are the men alone. Not bringing their family's. Typically these expats visit a bar after work, have dinner at their hotels. In the weekends they have a day off on sunday. So saturdays you tend to find them in a bar with or without girlfriend.
You'll find these people to be very generous and the likeable types.
Most of them are in their 50's and beyond. The more settled types.
Then you have the expats that stay in a country mostly for 4 years or more.
Mostly working for Dutch multinationals. Most of them you'll find in the upper managment levels. Mostly in the age between mid 30's to mid 40's.
Have their family's with them. tend to have the weekends off to spent time with their family's. A lot will bring the children to school on their way to work.
These are the types that want to make everybody aware that they are there and behave like not really nice people. Lack in general the experience from the one as above described.The worst are the wifes who have time enough to kill and behave like complete idiots. The type that organizes party's and blabber around with the latest gossips of other expats in their behaviour. Because some f these wifes consider themselfs really important because they have a housekeeper and driver. All of a sudden she has status. The more experienced expat wife is distant and not even bothers about the staff and ignors them completely. So i consider expats not as the typical Dutch type. The worst are the expat wifes.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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(Moderated) Posted @ 10-05-2008 06:30 |
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sidia
User
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On 10-05-2008 06:30 oyibo wrote:
2sight,
So i consider expats not as the typical Dutch type. The worst are the expat wifes.
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Its true , but they are the "ambassadors"of the Dutch.
At2ndsight , you must try to read the book Expats , writer is Max de Bruin , a dutch historisian who is living for 1 year in Jakarta.
A quote:
Volgens Max de Bruijn leidt het cultuurverschil bij veel expats in Indonesië tot permanente ergernis en vooroordelen. "Wat de expats willen, die westerse manier van werken, krijg je niet voor elkaar. Maar is de Javaan lui, omdat-ie niet meteen doet wat de westerling doet?
Oyibo , you forget to tell abt the other dutch migrants / workers in Indonesia .
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(Edited) Posted @ 10-05-2008 09:11 |
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Nemesis
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In Indonesia people organize the work.
In Holland work organizes the people.
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Amore, more, ore, re, probantur amicitiae. Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes.
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 10:37 |
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sidia
User
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On 10-05-2008 10:37 Nemesis wrote:
In Indonesia people organize the work.
In Holland work organizes the people.
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Poor dutchies 
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 10:43 |
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AnisJ
User
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On 10-05-2008 10:37 Nemesis wrote:
In Indonesia people organize the work.
In Holland work organizes the people.
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Oh common Nemesis from which book you've got that slogan ..... can't you do better then that ...... it's rubbish man ...... how about things like 'human-resource mangement' do you thing this filosophy came out of the blue .......
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'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 10:47 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Nemesis.
In indonesia very little is organised.
In Holland people are over organised. And organised to death.
To choose from the the two, I preffer option one.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 13:38 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Sidia,
Max de Bruin is correct, even on this forum we see people really suffering.
And not coping with society and a poor self reflection.
The world has become very small over the past 2 to 3decades by means of transporting people with commercial jets. It's a bit romantic to say that expats are the ambassadors of their respective country's. Look at this forum and the reactions, as far as I can see I see YB and Johan more or less aware of what they are doing in another society. In terms of work. And their awareness of their actions and the consequences of their doing. Then I make a difference with people who more or less matured in life and retire. With that leaves an amount of people living and working in RI and their points of view, let me be diplomatic for once, " making comple *rses of them selfes".
And I for one wouldn't be calling them ambassadors.
They are the worst example. It becomes even worse if you are the next Dutch having to deal with these people. It becomes more and more obvious overtime how well Indonesians are integrated into Dutch society.
Could be an example for many Dutch people integrating in RI.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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(Moderated) Posted @ 10-05-2008 14:17 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Anisj,
Explain to me what HR has got to do with Nemesis's remark?
The observation was correct. But making a link between HR and decisions forthcoming from politics and passed as regulations and even worse, legislation and the consequences from that for Dutch society in general is way out of line. Soon you will be paying tax for passing wind. And if you incidently exceed the 90Db barrier in the process you will be fined. For making more noise then you are supposed to make.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 14:36 |
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AnisJ
User
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On 10-05-2008 14:36 oyibo wrote:
Anisj,
Explain to me what HR has got to do with Nemesiss remark?
The observation was correct. But making a link between HR and decisions forthcoming from politics and passed as regulations and even worse, legislation and the consequences from that for Dutch society in general is way out of line. Soon you will be paying tax for passing wind. And if you incidently exceed the 90Db barrier in the process you will be fined. For making more noise then you are supposed to make.
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Strange to see a moderator replaing a member .... for somebody else in a topic ..... HR is an example .....
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'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 15:30 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Aha, okay as an example?
I still don't understand.
But if one is asked to contribute to this site, then all of a sudden he's not a member anymore? Thats a bit strange Anis. You accept a clean forum, and the person doing that ,all of a sudden is no longer a forummember?
Well............................ thank you. It means I cannot participate in a discussion?
Beeing affraid of what? I might change your reply if I don't like your answer?
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It's only kinky the first time.
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 15:49 |
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sidia
User
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On 10-05-2008 15:30 AnisJ wrote:
...
Strange to see a moderator replaing a member .... for somebody else in a topic ..... HR is an example .....
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Ha ha ha ha .
Anis.
You are little confused ? abt the role of Oyibo (member) or Oyibo moderator.
Maybe its better if Oyibo make a differrence in his posting as a Member or a Moderator.
Like Jeroen or Yerun ?
Jeroen is moderator(now Adminsdtrator) and Yerun is a member.
Welke pet heeft Oyibo nu ?
Answering as moderator or member ?
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Posted @ 10-05-2008 18:21 |
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oyibo
Moderator
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Sidia,
We have an administrator, Jeroen who controls the site.
I was asked to contribute to this site, in the new forum and for the bigger part cleaning up and keep the site tidy. I'm not carrying any responsibility besides the cleaning and welcoming and answering guests and new arrivals.
Should I have 2 usernames for that?
I feel I don't need that, for the bigger part of my presence I'm just a user with the possibility to clean up. I like to keep it that way. I think that a change needs some time, for the bigger part users have no problem at all.
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It's only kinky the first time.
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Posted @ 11-05-2008 04:04 |
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sidia
User
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On 11-05-2008 04:04 oyibo wrote:
Sidia,
Should I have 2 usernames for that?
I feel I dont need that, for the bigger part of my presence Im just a user with the possibility to clean up. I like to keep it that way. I think that a change needs some time, for the bigger part users have no problem at all.
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Maybe.
Because if some one in discussion with you as member it can be " confusing" if you at the same time also acting as a moderator in the same discussion or topic.
So called conflict of interest .
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(Edited) Posted @ 11-05-2008 08:14 |
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Jeroen
Administrator
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The discussion about Oyibo can be done in another topic, let's go back ontopic here.
There are two kind of Dutch people here: those who are forced working here and those who came here at free will. A mix of this is possible as well, but those are very rare.
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Posted @ 11-05-2008 09:02 |
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dutchguy1000
User
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On 11-05-2008 09:02 Jeroen wrote:
The discussion about Oyibo can be done in another topic, lets go back ontopic here.
There are two kind of Dutch people here: those who are forced working here and those who came here at free will. A mix of this is possible as well, but those are very rare.
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Then I'm that rare type.. he he he
Greetz
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Posted @ 11-05-2008 11:08 |
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at2ndsight
User
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Sidia,
Wat was good work in dutch in Holland or in Indonesia? Bagi2 dong mas 
I heard Dutch is more Soft than German for working environment?
regards,
A 
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Posted @ 12-05-2008 09:21 |
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sidia
User
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On 12-05-2008 09:21 at2ndsight wrote:
Sidia,
Wat was good work in dutch in Holland or in Indonesia? Bagi2 dong mas
I heard Dutch is more Soft than German for working environment?
regards,
A
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* Civil servant , you are not a servant of the public but ...........
* Depends of the branch , but its true.
The Germans is more disiplined according to my indonesians friends who 's living (working) in Germany.(Ordnung muss sein . )
I had also a couple month experience in a German factory .
A nice experience , I can earn more money (3 X) comparing with working in Dutch factories. But I must go back again to college in Holland..
Then I earn less money , but become not a "buruh" for the rest of my life.
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(Edited) Posted @ 12-05-2008 09:33 |
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