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at2ndsight
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I am new in this forum. One of member sent me a message to my email address,only very polite email her hubby sent to me. I replied his email, with polite and attached my pic, cos he attached his pic as well (he pic , is family pic). But wat i received this morning, his Indonesian wife replied with rude word. Wow...I am thinking, is it all indonesian lady who married with bule always rude? or cos perhaps the rude is low educated?

Best, anne


~wayfarer~

Albert
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Anne,

That is something you cannot just answer. Maybe his wife is angry to him, because he has a love affair with others and therefore his wife no longer trust him?

Or she is quickly jealous by nature?

Who will tell......... ?

Ask her/him why she behaved so rude to you.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

rspelmink
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jealousy is not only the problem for indonesia women, it's a global problem.... *such as global warming Emoticon: Nice



monyet
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Co-incidentally I heard a friend of mine (who works in Asia) state that Asian women are generally more jealous than the more independent Western woman. This is not my experience, but then I have to admit that I haven't been in relationships with all Asian women Emoticon: Laugh out loud
In short: I am not too fond of generalisations.


From Dayeuhkolot with love

Albert
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On 30-04-2008 09:55 monyet wrote:
Co-incidentally I heard a friend of mine (who works in Asia) state that Asian women are generally more jealous than the more independent Western woman.

My wife experienced the same, when she talks with the suppliers at their home.
The wifes are quickly jealous even if they know she is my wife.

I think it also has to do with the intelligent level and society level and culture.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

at2ndsight
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On 30-04-2008 10:22 Albert wrote:

...

My wife experienced the same, when she talks with the suppliers at their home.
The wifes are quickly jealous even if they know she is my wife.

I think it also has to do with the intelligent level and society level and culture.


I agree with you Albert, with ==> Intelligent level and society level. Its quite irritated me this morning, when I read it. Wat she wrote was in bahasa : yg bener aja kalo kirim foto ke suami orang. Laki gue nggak tertarik ama elo. And my replied to her : Wow ..I am sorry Ibu, I think you misunderstanding. I am educated person .....(then I speechless , I dont know wat I have to write :( ). Nightmare for me ... I am sorry for moderator if I paste wat she wrote to me.

I swear,,,,If I have bf or hubby bule, I will not do dummy act ,never ever. Its very annoying .... Emoticon: Nooo .

I appreciate it for all responses, dankjewel allemaal. Emoticon: Smile


~wayfarer~

sidia
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On 30-04-2008 14:47 at2ndsight wrote:

...


IWat she wrote was in bahasa :
1. yg bener aja kalo kirim foto ke suami orang.

2Laki gue nggak tertarik ama elo. And my replied to her :
I swear,,,,If I have bf or hubby bule, I will not do dummy act ,never ever. Its very

1. Yes , its not sopan to send a pic to married man.
2.She is not sopan . A little bit kampungan




Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

mashil
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I think its a normal reaction from this lady and her words does'nt look so rude to me, or maybe I am kampungan too Emoticon:
I don't really understand why your reply was: "i am educated person".
What are you trying to say with that?

Maybe you tried to be polite by sending your picture to this man but it wasn't a wise action I guess.


- Let us live simply so that others may simply live -

evaca
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I think it has got nothing to do with intelligent level or culturel. All woman has that sense western, africa or asia including you, anne. Educated or uneducated person, specially woman if something like that happen to them, their reaction much the same. You are single, right and never been married.So, you just don't know how it feels. Anne, do you think that Indonesian women who married with foreigners are foolish or have low educated, don't you? If you do, then you are very wrong. It is not rude sentences, i think she is a bit angry because of the picture or maybe she has misunderstood.
Sidia : she is not kampungan, she does wat she has to do, it is normal.
Hilmar : i am agree 100% with you. Sometime people comes negatieve thinking if you send a picture of yourself to someone who married except if you send a picture of you together with you family to someone, that is different story.
Emoticon: Worship



sidia
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On 01-05-2008 17:47 evaca wrote:
Sidia : she is not kampungan, she does wat she has to do, it is normal.

Emoticon: Worship

A bit angry .? (pse read once again: Laki gue nggak tertarik ama elo)
Laki gue = Suami saya nggak= tidak ama elo = dengan anda .
Thus not a bit angry , and a little bit kampungan. Emoticon: Smile


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

evaca
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On 01-05-2008 19:42 sidia wrote:

...

A bit angry .? (pse read once again: Laki gue nggak tertarik ama elo)
Laki gue = Suami saya nggak= tidak ama elo = dengan anda .
Thus not a bit angry , and a little bit kampungan. Emoticon: Smile

If you are orang Jakarta ( people from Jakarta ) these words are normal especially young people, and Jakarta people is modern people so it is not kampungan. If you are angry, i bed there are no nice words come out from your mouth. Maybe she is orang betawi. Emoticon: Shut up!



sidia
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I knew the jakartans slang .
Gue juga lahir dan digedein di Jakarta .
Brani betaro gue juga lebih betawi asli dari betawi impor .

Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. Albert and Monyet .
Its not a matter of yealousy , its a matter of cultural differencies between mrs X / at2ndsight and both of you.
It is not done to send a picture to a married man.
Almost every Indonesian knows the Indonesian standards.





Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

mashil
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Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. Albert and Monyet .
Its not a matter of yealousy , its a matter of cultural differencies between mrs X / at2ndsight and both of you.
It is not done to send a picture to a married man.
Almost every Indonesian knows the Indonesian standards.



This has nothing to do with cultural differencies or Indonesian standards.
And again, its just a bit angry, if we are really angry we use some other words then this ibu is using....


- Let us live simply so that others may simply live -

sidia
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Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. Hilmar
1. Topicstitel : Is It Indonesian lady who married with bule always rude??
Always rude : answer : not always , depends situation.
2. I have friends who married orang laki2 bule .
3.The Indonesian have some written -unwritten rules.
Every Indonesian with enough education must know the rules. ( adat-istiadat)

I can understand if Mrs X will be little bit angry , because at2secondsight is born / grew up(?) and living in Indonesia.
She must know the adat .

Abt Albert / Monyet , I think (mho) that maybe they cant understand the situation .
And ofcourse we dont know the background of this story
1. what kind of couple.
2. who is the orang bule.
3.who is at2secsight
As we know there are plenty stories about laki2 bule's.



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

evaca
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I think she talks in general about Indonesian woman and foreigners. Yes, she must know the adat, but nowadays they do not have the adat anymore, they have forgotten. I have friends who married with foreigners too, one of them almost got divorced cos her husband had affairs with indonesian girl (she knew that he has already a wife but she kept doing it). They went on vaccation to Jakarta ( Husband=foreigner, wife= Indonesia and one soon) for severals week, when they returned from vaccation, he asked her to divorce.
Sidia : The point is, this is a simple situation. If she is an educated person ( like she said) she should not bother it at all, she can handel it.



mashil
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On 02-05-2008 08:38 sidia wrote:
Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. Hilmar
1. Topicstitel : Is It Indonesian lady who married with bule always rude??
Always rude : answer : not always , depends situation.
2. I have friends who married orang laki2 bule .
3.The Indonesian have some written -unwritten rules.
Every Indonesian with enough education must know the rules. ( adat-istiadat)

I can understand if Mrs X will be little bit angry , because at2secondsight is born / grew up(?) and living in Indonesia.
She must know the adat .



Sidia:
1. Thats what I'm saying.
2. Nice.
3. True.
4. I can understand that too, I think everybody will.


- Let us live simply so that others may simply live -

rspelmink
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Jealousy typically refers to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival. This rival may or may not know that he or she is perceived as a threat.

above according to Wikipedia

so is it cultural or is it in our genes? Emoticon: Party!



monyet
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In our genes to a great extent, but I have to say that I can see some link with Hofstede's teachings on culture show that Indonesia has the lowest rating of individualism in the world (http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_indonesia.shtml). In countries like Indonesia, which are very collectivist, you will usually find that there's more 'social control' and also greater dependency on the people around oneself. This means that the dependency on a husband is also greater than in cultures like in West-Europe. Which in the end may lead to more jealousy.
Just my two pence worth.


From Dayeuhkolot with love

evaca
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On 02-05-2008 16:01 rspelmink wrote:
Jealousy typically refers to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival. This rival may or may not know that he or she is perceived as a threat.

above according to Wikipedia

so is it cultural or is it in our genes? Emoticon: Party!
(Cultural) Western women have it too, but sometimes they do not show it up in front of you. (Genes) if you are talking abaout genes mmmmmm do not think so. Like you said before jealousy is just global, men and women have it.



evaca
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On 02-05-2008 16:22 monyet wrote:
In our genes to a great extent, but I have to say that I can see some link with Hofstedes teachings on culture show that Indonesia has the lowest rating of individualism in the world (http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_indonesia.shtml). In countries like Indonesia, which are very collectivist, you will usually find that theres more social control and also greater dependency on the people around oneself. This means that the dependency on a husband is also greater than in cultures like in West-Europe. Which in the end may lead to more jealousy.Just my two pence worth.
We have been taught from our great great great great grand parents that we have to be loyal to our husband. Nowadays you can see, Indonesian (mainly carriere) women do not dependent anymore on a husband.



sidia
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On 02-05-2008 21:03 evaca wrote:

...
. Nowadays you can see, Indonesian (mainly carriere) women do not dependent anymore on a husband.


Its true , my own mother and " her generation " (born in 1915 ) was always independent.
Also my generation (Friends-family ).
They have their own jobs and incomes.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

oyibo
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Not surprysingly cultural differences are the reason for behaviour in more then one way. In addition society in Indonesie differs a lot from the one in Europe.
Mainly in Northern Europe we come from a society forced to plan due to seasonal influences and its effect on people. Plant, harvest and store to have food during winter. This process has been going on for century's.

In the last century and after the second world war European society's developt fast in terms of high living standards and the conversion from a "we" society to an " I" society as one of our users earlier on the forum stated.
I think this user made an more then very good observation, most likely coming from practial experiences. Never the less for some an obervation that really can be an eyeopener.




It's only kinky the first time.

Yogya-Bali
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After all the years here in RI I still do have a problem with the tremendous jealousy of Indonesian women in common. A lot is said already above and a lot of good remarks, a.o. about the cultural differences.
But I still feel that one things is forgotten and that is the economic reason. Indonesian women are raised up by their (grand)mothers with the idea that you always have to be careful with men, specially your husband, because when she grows old, he (the husband) can easily run away with a much younger and prettier one. The fact that age in the Indonesian society is not that strict (and oldfashioned) like in the western world, makes it very easy for a man to find himself a much younger wife when he is still already on age. Especially when he has money or a guaranteed income which makes him very attractive for young women. Back to the first lady: she will be left with a bunch of kids which mouths she has to fill and quite often - without the help of her former husband - there's no moral or legal obligation to pay maintenance to your ex-wife.
So, a girl is raised up with the idea that she has to be very cautious with her (future) husband and keep an eye on him so that he will not have the opportunity to run away with another (mostly younger) one. And it often happens, so the prejudice towards men is understandable. But also the suspicion towards other women because a great lot af women here don't have any moral obligations to decoy, tempt and take away the husband of another woman. It's survival of the fittest and the struggle for live. So no time to think about the consequences for this other woman and her children, just seize and take your chance.
"At2ndsight", according to me it has actually nothing to do with education but all with the culture, standards, moral, norms, (also religion: for moslims it is easy to divorce, for hindus much more difficult) and economic situations (a part of the fact that most of the relations between a bule and an Indonesian woman are based on economy and not that often on love or mutual respect).




oyibo
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I did see a Hindu marriage breakup recently.
The children went with the man. The woman was free from children and he has to take care of them in his new relationship as he found a new wife.

Even then the ex-wife has no rights at all as you say YB.
She receives no payment not even for daily living.
In that sense your statement and observation is correct and might explain the protectiveness. I don't know about the muslim situation.

I've found in more country's relationships based on economics most of them in third world country's. And seen guy's making complete *sses of them selfs sitting around with birds half their age, completely oblivious of the fact that it is simply economics and not love. And it's a complete waiste of energy to try to explain. I've seen it with former co-workers. Most of these relationships breakup within a couple of years. In these cases you hardly find anything equal, a very good recepy for disaster.


It's only kinky the first time.

Yogya-Bali
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To be honest, I don't know that much about Hindu-relations. All the information is told to me by Bali collegues. In fact the islam does have a protection for women when they are divorced; only practically and in reality men don't give a dime about is and it is idle.
And reality that is what women have to deal with, not with empty religious rules.
Like I said, I personally still do have a problem with dealing with the quite common occurence of tremendous jealousy of Indonesian women, but I also now do understand where it is coming from and cannot blame them anymore for this behaviour.





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