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Yerun
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Having experienced it before in real life in Malang late last year, and now via email again, I start to wonder why some people accuse me, being born in the Netherlands in 1981, of being colonial or something like that.

The first time it was in Malang, it was about Taman Kunir. That guy was the drunk one between people from KODIM, reserse and others. He directly accused my friend and me of being new colonialists, while we only took a look for my website. oh well, that wasn't too strange as he was plane drunk, but now there is another thing.

It is related to a user of the free version of KAMUS-online.com, my dictionary. However most people are satisfied with the free version, others are not and help me to improve it (thanks for that of course). Others however think they have the right to call me names directly. That's fine with me, because that directly indicates that such a person is 'below' me, speaking of colonialism.

Let's start with the first email, where the guy, who calls himself Vic, is frustrated and emails me.


From: Vic
Email: agadRemoved to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile.nerdshack.com
IP: 169.subnet125-161-240.speedy.telkom.net.id [125.161.240.169]

Enak aja loe berani berani minta charge kita, udah gitu pedit amat ngasih cuman 10 search. Dasar setan.

Setiap kali gue nge search juga banyak kata yang ngga ada. Seharusnya gue yang minta charge elu buat ngasih ide kata-kata mana yang loe belum ada, monyet!

Fucking asshole.


That's one way of telling you don't like it, but eager as I am I try to find the real reason, so I reply in a friendly matter to this email.


Hello,

Thanks for your email concerning KAMUS-online.com and thank you for using the kamus.

Of course not all words are available, but when people search it and a word is not found, it will be put in a list so we will look for a proper translation as soon as we can. Unfortunately we don't have the proper funds to hire 10 workers to do this full-time for us, so around 500 new words are added every week.

I don't see why a free version of something has to be perfect, and that I am called names for that. I hope you will find a way to excuse for your behaviour to me personally as well. I do my best for KAMUS-online.com, but I don't need people to offend me in this way.

If you would like, give me a chance to meet you, as I am currently in Yogyakarta. Then we can discuss KAMUS-online.com personally if you like.

I'm sorry not to reply you in your own language. However I understand Bahasa Indonesia, I don't want to use it in writing as it is far from perfect .

With friendly regards,
Jeroen van der Linde


Normally I don't expect a reply after I have offered someone to meet with me directyly. That scares a lot of people because they loose the secrecy of internet which will be replaced with reality... scary thought for some!

But I did get a reply, and now I'm not the satan from the previous email anymore.

500 new words every week? gimme a break. The site mentioned you've existed since year 2000.

that means by now you would even have invented new words of your own!

judging by your name you're probably from the netherlands, the country that had raped this country for a very long time, taking vasts amounts of its natural resource.

isn't it about godamn time, as a descendant of a nation that is so spirtually corrupt in so many way, try to cleanse yourself by giving something back to others?


Aah, other problems show up now. It is obvious that he saw my name before and that he reacted to that. He just is a frustrated little internetting person trying to insult me. That's what I reply to him.


Hello,

I checked the words you searched in KAMUS-online.com and from the 12 times you searched with the IP you send the email with, 10 gave results and 2 didn't. So that's not all too bad isn't it?

Currently about 500 words are added weekly, previously not of course, then I would be finished by now. Keep in mind that it also has to be translated into Dutch, as I am Dutch indeed. However I don't see the relation between that and me having to give something back being born far after the Dutch colonial time.

I'm sorry you get all frustrated by two simple translations that are not in a free dictionary. I guess it's more your personal problem than mine if I see the emails you sent to me. Unless you have something real to discuss, I don't see the need to give anything to you.

Some people get free things from me, but that's because they help me in a normal way, and not start to call names before even checking the situation. I see that as pure lazyness from you. It's your right to be lazy of course, but don't bother me with that in the future.

With friendly regards,
Jeroen van der Linde


And I'm now waiting a reply on that if it will ever come.

But....

where do such thoughts come from? Did someone have a granddad killed in the war? Just some personal frustration that he is living in a corrupt country (as he said himself by the way, so not my words), or maybe plain old yealousy to someone who did actually make a dictionary, free for all? Or discrimination? If so I could just make a police report here.

I don't know, but after seven years of internet and several more of these wild accusations I'm just wondering what the answer can be.

And oh.. it doesn't keep me awake at night at all Emoticon: Puh!



ardianto
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Yerun,

It might be a very disturbed and frustrated person, maybe an expat just heard his contract is not going to be extended or something. Don't think about it, live with it.

Having this case filed a the station is not going to make a difference, but will just costs you more headaches and time, especially in Indonesia.


Keep up the good work!

salam
ardianto



Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is ge´ntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

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Back to colonial times? If you are born in 1981 nobody can blame you for the colonial past of the Dutch. But how do you look at that period? What did the Dutch and the other colonial powers contribute to theit colonies. How they treat the people? What does the western world nowadays? In the near future they have to realize that their economic power will be history. Like me, just visit those places. Every year I am visiting Malang. This place has a rich history, but their future is to the Indonesians. Merdeka!

Mister Robert



andre
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....a nation that is so spirtually corrupt in so many way


uhh, spiritually corrupt? What nation is he talking about?



Yerun
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Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile. ardianto; for sure I'm not going to report anything, it's fine as it is, and I even didn't get a response up to now, so maybe he left the office for the last time Emoticon: Wink

Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile.mister robert; I don't relate my website to colonial times and I think I don't have enough knowlegde to judge about that time as well. I can tell from myself that I fel honest and I will do my best to help others - yes, sometimes for free as well.

Indonesians indeed have the future but some which to blame others for the current state of their country I guess?



Yerun
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On 11-04-2007 09:50 andre wrote:

...


uhh, spiritually corrupt? What nation is he talking about?


Andre, I don't know what that means, I didn't dare to ask Emoticon: Red face



Jantje
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On 11-04-2007 09:08 mister robert wrote:
. This place has a rich history, but their future is to the Indonesians. Merdeka!

Mister Robert


Hahaha. You make me laugh! Everybody can see what has become of 61 years "Merdeka" Foolish pride. Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Nooo



sidia
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On 11-04-2007 10:08 Jantje wrote:

...


Hahaha. You make me laugh!

Yes , indeed .
But for another reason.

Kek kek kek kek Emoticon: Smile


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Jantje
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On 11-04-2007 11:25 sidia wrote:

...

Yes , indeed .
But for another reason.

Kek kek kek kek Emoticon: Smile


Please tell me all about it. I like a good laugh. May I join you? Emoticon: Shiny



Yerun
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ooh ... I got a splendid reply:


"However I don't see the relation between
> that and
> me having to give something back being born far after the Dutch colonial
> time."

i didn't think you would



Nice.. but well.. that's all, so probably he listened to my previous advice to shut up if there was nothing useful to talk about. Emoticon: Smile



ningrum
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how abaout me? i was born 1974 in live in holland now but i still get discriminatie from my people who werk together with me, she said that i am a slave from netherlands colonial, i even not born yet in in the colonial time, and i am upsaid and can't recive it, and she did't have netherland blood (hollander), she just have a netherland passport.......... Emoticon: Angry



marcel70
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This is a good sample and a refelection on whats happend in Indonesia almost daily.

Sid I keep om smile and shake my head.


The reason is that Indonesia people always talk about the colonial time is that
they don have to look to whats coming besok.
right or not sid Emoticon: Stupid Emoticon: Stupid Emoticon: Stupid
This is a immens reason for whats happend every day in Indonesia,
And goverments and goverment schools ect do nothing about that.



Becik ketitik olo Ketoro

derrick
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On 11-04-2007 09:08 mister robert wrote:
Back to colonial times? If you are born in 1981 nobody can blame you for the colonial past of the Dutch. But how do you look at that period? What did the Dutch and the other colonial powers contribute to theit colonies. How they treat the people? What does the western world nowadays? In the near future they have to realize that their economic power will be history. Like me, just visit those places. Every year I am visiting Malang. This place has a rich history, but their future is to the Indonesians. Merdeka!

Mister Robert


Indonesia's future is up to the Indonesians, and not to the Dutch or the rest of the world.
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume the Dutch didn't leave much in Indonesia. What is your point? You can repeat over and over again that the Dutch didn't contribute much and treated the people in a bad manner, okay, but what now?

The Dutch left more than 50 years ago, so one might expect things would have changed for the better. At least better behaviour, but unfortunately Indonesian history after 1950 is drenched in blood. Look at the cleansing operation in 1965/66 (+500.000 killed) and the papuan genocide (100.000 killed).
If Indonesians are so upset about Dutch colonial behaviour, why do they copy this behaviour then? For example, when I look at Suharto, I see an Indonesian version of General Van Heutsz but then even worse.

And why do you bother about the economic power of the West? You should be more concerned about the failing Indonesian economy. For me it's a mystery how a country that is so rich in natural resources (gold, copper, gas, oil etc.) has such a bad economy. What is even more mindboggling is that when people, like yourself, are moaning about Dutch colonial rule are just standing by and watching how the country is being robbed of their natural resources by foreign companies.

Maybe you didn't notice but Indonesia is being colonised again, but now by foreign companies helped by the Indonesian government. Where did we see that earlier? Yes, in the VOC days! But now the role of the VOC has been taking over by companies like Freeport-McMoran and Newmont, and the role of the local rulers by the Indonesian Government. So maybe it is time to learn from history, instead of endless repeating this lament about the Dutch.



andre
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On 16-04-2007 12:08 derrick wrote:

...What is your point? You can repeat over and over again that the Dutch didnt contribute much and treated the people in a bad manner, okay, but what now?
The Dutch left more than 50 years ago, so one might expect things would have changed for the better....


As much as I agree with Jeroen, that anyone born after 1927 cannot be held responsible for the colonial past in Indonesia of the Netherlands, the people complaining about the heritage of colonial rule, may have a point.

If you look around the world, a majority of the countries that have been under colonial rule, is in a bad shape, politically and economically. If we take a look at the dutch colonies alone, it is clear that Indonesia and Suriname are both closely watched by the IMF, the World bank and Amnesty International. (NB. This is not a good thing).

The Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, Thailand have all seen coups and bloodshed since their independence. My point being that a colonial past, somehow creates the right conditions for misery. So, when people complain about their former colonial rulers, they can say that their country got a false start in the race of the nations.


...For me its a mystery how a country that is so rich in natural resources (gold, copper, gas, oil etc.) has such a bad economy...


Nigeria


...Maybe you didnt notice but Indonesia is being colonised again, but now by foreign companies helped by the Indonesian government. Where did we see that earlier? Yes, in the VOC days! ...


History does repeat itself doesn't it? Read the percentages on this site, this site, this article and this article



sidia
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On 16-04-2007 12:08 derrick wrote:

...


Maybe you didnt notice but Indonesia is being colonised again, but now by foreign companies helped by the Indonesian government. .


Is it Neo Colonialism or Globalisation.?
I think there is a differences between VOC time an Indonesia Merdeka, almost 100% revenues come to the "motherland".

If I make a comparisson with the Neteherlands companies , they are also "colonised" by other foreign cies.
Can you tell us about owners of the so called Dutch Companies ?

Indonesia have a bright future if they they can banned the KKN and secure the Social & political stabiltiy
--------------------------------
Acc.Jakarta Post.
.Armed with the new Investment Law and abundant natural resources, Indonesia has the potential to attract the attention of many more Indian companies in the future.

IBonWEB.com -
2005: Domestic and foreign investment increased 86.11 percent and 88.69 percent respectively from the same period last year.
And still increasing in 2006 -2007 ? ??





Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

derrick
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On 17-04-2007 08:49 sidia wrote:

Is it Neo Colonialism or Globalisation.?
I think there is a differences between VOC time an Indonesia Merdeka, almost 100% revenues come to the "motherland".

Sidia,

I was referring to the principle that one or more foreign countries/firms exploit the natural resources of another country. What happens now in Indonesia is the same what happened in the VOC days. Different people, different companies but the same principle. For me the label Neo-Colonialism fits the best.




AnisJ
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Dear
" .... how thick is your skin ...... does 'Vic' knows that you run a website with several million forumviewers ........?
Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

ningrum
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macam betuuuuuuul aja si marcel, kamu itu org luar kaga tau indonsia itu gimana, bmt...... weet je veel over mijn land indonesia, komt en leven in indonesia en beheerst je indonesia taal en daarna je mag praat over indonesia. als alleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen een keer of twee keer naar indonesia met korte tijd dus hoeft je niet te veel bemoien over economi en religius of overheid in indonesia. heeft je trots over je land zoals indonesia. MERDEKA. het is anders met colonial tijds.



ningrum
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sebeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel



AnisJ
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On 17-04-2007 16:14 ningrum wrote:
macam betuuuuuuul aja si marcel, kamu itu org luar kaga tau indonsia itu gimana, bmt...... weet je veel over mijn land indonesia, komt en leven in indonesia en beheerst je indonesia taal en daarna je mag praat over indonesia. als alleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen een keer of twee keer naar indonesia met korte tijd dus hoeft je niet te veel bemoien over economi en religius of overheid in indonesia. heeft je trots over je land zoals indonesia. MERDEKA. het is anders met colonial tijds.


  • Bukan tergantung dari 'orang tau' ...... di INDOSnesos relasi 'la´n dengan la´n' penting juga, itulah anda tau ....... it depends on relations ......
  • INDOnesia is 'a mafia-run state' itulah anda harus tau, tida; the 'Godfather/Don Corleone' is an old man .... the INDOnesian youth has the
    future ...


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    ningrum
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    you are right anisj, het is defend on the relationship. just litle keki/ sewoot if talking abaut school, overheid, religius, coruptie.
    indonesia just independent 62 years. that is not really easy to built indonesia. we can't change the past because history al there that netherland is een colonial. just enjoyed that independent

    thank anistj



    ningrum
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    wie is don corleone?



    derrick
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    On 17-04-2007 07:56 andre wrote:

    If you look around the world, a majority of the countries that have been under colonial rule, is in a bad shape, politically and economically. If we take a look at the dutch colonies alone, it is clear that Indonesia and Suriname are both closely watched by the IMF, the World bank and Amnesty International. (NB. This is not a good thing).

    As far as Surinam is concerned, they were just dumped by the Dutch Government. The country itself wasn't ready for Independance. 100.000's left Surinam before the Independance because they didn't have much faith in an independant Surinam at that time. The majority of the Surinam people didn't support independance at that moment. Another black page in Dutch history.

    The Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, Thailand have all seen coups and bloodshed since their independence.

    When was Thailand made independant? And from which country?

    My point being that a colonial past, somehow creates the right conditions for misery. So, when people complain about their former colonial rulers, they can say that their country got a false start in the race of the nations.

    That is true, for a lot countries a colonial past is a bad starting point. In the case of Indonesia the starting point was a colonial war, which made it even worse. And thereafter the economic policy of President Sukarno didn't help much either. And there are many more factors which have or had a negative influence such as the large influence of the military, and the rampant corruption.

    The people complaining about the heritage of colonial rule may indeed have a point, but does it help at the moment? The problems that Indonesia is facing now are so immense, that it may be better to focus on that, instead of blaming the Dutch over and over again.
    And btw if the Indonesians feel so mistreated by the Dutch, well they are the ones who should know how it it feels to be oppressed. Why did they kill so many Papuans, and why did they exterminate the Communists? The word Merdeka has for some people in Indonesia a very bitter taste.



    sidia
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    On 18-04-2007 00:56 derrick wrote:

    ...

    That is true, for a lot countries a colonial past is a bad starting point. In the case of Indonesia the starting point was a colonial war, which made it even worse.

    And thereafter the economic policy of President Sukarno didnt help much either. And there are many more factors which have or had a negative influence such as the large influence of the military, and the rampant corruption.


    Bad starting point ?
    They cannot developing ther own country , choosing their own path (good or bad way) or freedom. And some times for hunders of years.

    It's true , Indonesia have immense preblems , since the beginning (1945) till at least 1965-1966 .
    Later the Timor Timur affaire .
    Its a big country , with big problems , not enougf funds , skilled people , to much ethnicsgroups etc.
    And the role of the OrBa , Krismon etc.

    Myanmar , Suriname , Philipine , Malaysia have not so much problems as Indonesia.
    Their countrysize , social/political situation , ethnicsgroups etc.
    Philippine have also a better education, and hunderd of years earliers than the indonesian.
    (Thailand is another story. Emoticon: Smile )



    Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

    andre
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    On 18-04-2007 00:56 derrick wrote:

    When was Thailand made independant? And from which country?


    Oops... Emoticon: Blush uh 13th century, from the Khmer.... ? Emoticon: Smile


    And btw if the Indonesians feel so mistreated by the Dutch, well they are the ones who should know how it it feels to be oppressed. Why did they kill so many Papuans, and why did they exterminate the Communists? The word Merdeka has for some people in Indonesia a very bitter taste.


    Let's just say that the Dutch set a good example... But, you are right Derrick (I've never seen an episode where Derrick was wrong), it would be better to concentrate on the present. It has been discussed endlessly in this forum (here for instance).

    Jeroen's question was Why do people get back to colonial times (in arguments)? So far, most replies disapprove of looking back. But this doesn't answer the question.... I guess people that get back to colonial times, have a feeling that the Netherlands owes Indonesia something. In the Vic's words:

    ...try to cleanse yourself by giving something back to others?

    So then, the question is: What should we give back? How much? Should we add up the total amount of tea and tin, subtract the railroad and postal service, so we can pay the resulting amount over a period of 350 years? Would that make people forget?

    Ten again, if Mr. Suharto is let of the hook, so should the Dutch. Emoticon: Yes!




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