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lady_sue
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I just remembered a conversation I had with my brother when I was visiting Jakarta a few months ago.. I’d just share it in this forum just for the heck of it.. My brother is in his mid 30’s and unmarried.. We were sitting at the verandah, talking about nothin’.. I asked him, “Bro, if you have to choose, which one do you prefer, an intelligent but not so attractive woman or a drop dead gorgeous but not so bright woman?”.. To my utter astonishment he said, “Definitely the drop dead gorgeous one” . I was surprised, you see, my brother is a very intelligent man, he’s just too smart (sometimes I even thought that his brain is way beyond human, do you remember Bill Gates in his early days? well, my brother is sort of like that.. Geek!). I thought he would choose the intelligent one, considering she might have so many things in common with him.. Then I said, “But she’s not even smart, she’s sort of a dumb bimbo..” . And then he said, “Well, she can be not so dumb anymore by being with me.. I’ll upgrade her brain and then she’ll become a drop dead gorgeous standard brain woman” . Then I kept on thinking, why isn’t it fair for women? It’s just not fair.. I know men are very visual and all, but some women aren’t born beautiful you know.. And they want to be adored.. Ordinary women do not expect high standard men to be in their arms.. But so many ordinary men expect goddesses to be with them.. I thought smart men like my brother would make a smart choice about women.. But then again, they are not so smart anyway Emoticon: Smile (sorry bro!)



daft_punk
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dont ask the question if you dont like the anwer!



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Nothing wrong with his answer........



ardianto
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I would rather choose a gorgeous dark skinned pembantu-type girl from the kampung who knows how to take care for a man and is a good cook and could be a good mum, knows meaning of adat and have good manners, no idea how to use bedak or what's the meaning of Formula 1 racing, and has never made it to SMA....over a spoiled kota-brat (see your earlier post) who is bold, don't know what low-voiced is, has a higher demand for an outstanding career rather than being at home to look after kids and hubby, never would even think about eating at kaki lima, don't know what a broom is or how to cook rendang....but has (weird enough) the brain of a rocket scientist. Ooh.. and don't touch her face too rigorously....her bedak mask might come off and fall apart.

But...like daft_punk said...don't bother asking if you don't like the answer. Just my 2 cents...

salam,
ardianto



Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is geïntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

AnisJ
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  • "..... I'm sorry to say this, but is this not something(-s) of the past ; is it nowadays not the other way around, more women have more and more sometimes even better positions in society than men .... sure they tend to have different ideas how to plan their carreer in life ... at least they are more independent than men, because of their achievement(-s) in their carreer ...."


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    Yogya-Bali
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    Well, that's a man Lady_sue. They think different then a woman.
    I think your brother is quite normal. But it's the reaction women don't like.




    andre
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    The choice you gave your brother comes down to this:
    1. Do you want something that you already have and that you can easily get. i.e. Intelligent conversation/Intellectual challenge.
    Or
    2. Do you want something that you don't have yet and will be hard to get if option 1 is chosen. i.e. the delights of a "drop dead gorgeous" woman.

    Your brother made -given his options- a very smart choice



    Veer01
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    I have to admit that the woman will allways outsmart the men.Cause men are hunters by nature and women are smarter in longtime-planning in a relationship. Emoticon:



    derrick
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    On 27-03-2007 04:02 lady_sue wrote:
    "I’ll upgrade her brain and then she’ll become a drop dead gorgeous standard brain woman” .


    Does your brother work for Microsoft? Maybe he can upgrade his girlfriend with Windows Vista.
    Btw, if he is so intelligent why is he still unmarried? His intelligence doesn't seem to attract many women then.





    ardianto
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    On 29-03-2007 10:41 derrick wrote:

    ...

    Btw, if he is so intelligent why is he still unmarried? His intelligence doesnt seem to attract many women then.


    Doesn't make any sense Derrick what you're talking about. What is the relation between having a good set of brains (or intelligence) and marital status? Nothing. Now think about the relation between being intelligent and your posting.



    Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is geïntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

    derrick
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    Ardianto,

    There are women who are more attracted to "brains" than "looks". Apparently this doesn't work for the man mentioned in lady_sue's article. Sometimes there is a relationship between intelligence and marital status, for the man in the article this relationship clearly doesn't exist.
    When a man is so arrogant to say that he will "upgrade" his wife's brain up to his level of intelligence, like a woman is some kind of computer instead of a human being, one expects he would already have a wife.
    He should loose the attitude and find a woman first, instead of talking about upgrading the woman he doesn't have.




    lady_sue
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    Well derrick, for your information my brother is very much not an arrogant person in life.. He is very modest about his intelligence, believe me, I know.. What do you know anyway, you're not his sister.. You don't even know him.. About "upgrading the brain" as stated above, it's just an expression, he meant that since "pretty girls" who are "dumb" they don't bother to read books (usually they only read beauty magazines and stuff), and don't bother to watch the news (usually they only watch their favorite celebs on TV), by being with him at least the girl can pretty much absorb things other than those crRemoved to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile.p.. And at least they would have something to converse with to get them closer.. Don't you read my post Derrick? My brother doesn't expect the pretty girl to level up her brain as he is, she is expected just to be a "standard brain woman".. Because "dumb" is not "standard" and "standard" doesn't mean "highly intelligent".. And by the way, my brother is in a relationship with a woman at the moment.. And the type is just like he wanted.. Please read carefully before you post your comments derrick.. And for Ardianto, thanks.. You're a wise guy.. Emoticon: Smile



    daft_punk
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    strange post. I hope your brother will be happy with his new relation and have a healty future together!

    Daan



    derrick
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    On 29-03-2007 19:44 lady_sue wrote:
    Well derrick, for your information my brother is very much not an arrogant person in life.. He is very modest about his intelligence, believe me, I know.

    I didn't say he wasn't modest about his intelligence. You mentioned it in the first place (beyond human, Bill Gates).

    About "upgrading the brain" as stated above, it's just an expression.

    A very derogatory expression.



    ardianto
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    Hi lady_sue,

    Thanks for the compliment, I wasn't sure you would like my opinion, I'm glad you did Emoticon: Smile .

    salam,
    ardianto



    Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is geïntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

    zannehow
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    Lady Sue,

    It sounds like your brother has limited social skills and sad pygmalion like tendencies. By suggesting that he can "upgrade" a woman's brain, it sounds like he does not really want a partner with whom he can have a deep and meaningful engagement. Rather he wants someone who will simply agree with his ideas. I cannot imagine he would be very interesting to spend anytime with.

    And so often, plain or undestated people become more beautiful as you get to know them - their ideas and bright minds illuminate their faces.

    Moreover, standard symmetrical beauty is diminished and interesting if a dull light is shining inside.

    And I wonder what your brother would do if he was confronted with both beauty and high intelligence (which are not mutually exclusive by the way). I suspect he would be completely threatened by the prospect. And perhaps, a beautiful, intelligent woman would not so much as throw him a glance. So he must go after the "standard brain" woman - a stupid description at best.





    zannehow
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    Ardianto,

    Ardianto, hate to say it, but you sound like a sad loser. Did it ever cross your mind that intelligent women also like to cook and are capable of looking after children and may understand all those things. The dichotomy you draw is ridiculous and patriarchal. Women dont exist as stereotypical polarities.

    Further I think you are a bit like Lady Sue's brother - you would be completely threatened by a good looking intelligent woman who can manage career and family life. And they probably would not give you a second glance. Moreover, that good looking kampung woman probably would not have much choice in marrying you - she probably wouldn't have many other options. But underneath she would probably hold you in contempt and resent your stupid male arrogance. But of course, you would be far too arrogant to even care what she thought.




    hobo1
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    Hey, women seem to enforce the marriage game, where you got to sleep with the same woman until you are rich enough to get divorced. That's like a subscription to Playgirl magazine, with the same centerfold every month.

    I moved to Indonesia as an old man to find a beautiful, 17 year old wife - who will stay tall, tan-like, young and lovely as long as I am on planet Earth.

    I am so happy, maybe I will marry a second or third one! I might be old, but women do NOT change to stay pretty as they get old. The get old an ugly...and as for me, well, I pay the bills Emoticon: Worship so that question does not apply.


    Hideaway Bungalow in Kuta Lombok - check my homepage

    zannehow
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    Hobo1,

    Judging from your post, you sound rather like a narrow minded, predatory mysognist. I am sure that given options and resources in life, most lovely 17 year old Indonesian women would not give you the time of day. They would rather have gorgeous Indonesian boyfriends their own age. The only young Indonesian women who seem to go for "old western guys" are those in dire financial need or who come from socially disadvantaged sectors.

    I am also concerned that your attitude to getting a number of wives, and paying the bills, seems to imply that women are commodities that can be bought and paid for. A sad sad attitude. In fact, you sound like a very bitter old man. I am sure your presence in Indonesia is doing the country no good at all. And I am sure most Indonesians do not respect you.

    As to women enforcing the marriage game - what are you 12 years old in mentality. Most men I know do exactly what they want to do and that includes being married or not.





    Thole21
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    Lady Sue,
    I think what your brother trying to do is to create a "level playing field". If he's not good looking but incredibly intelligent it is fair in nature that he will try to find a drop dead gorgeous but not-so-bright woman. That's the balance of life. But if he's good looking intelligent man try to find a woman like that, at least you should appraise him for his willingness to take part in "mencerdaskan kehidupan bangsa". The common things might keep us together, but it is the difference that make this life worth living. Besides, Maybe he thinks that if he should choose the intelligent but not so attractive woman, his chance to "memperbaiki keturunan" will be slim Emoticon: Shiny . So, live with it.



    zannehow
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    Thole21,

    Thankyou for explaining the balance of life in simplistic terms. Brains and beauty are not mutually exclusive . Nor do intelligent men necessarily try to find dumber, better looking women. I would love to see your scientific backup or statistics to prove your rather spurious deductions.

    I gather you will be looking for a good looking intelligent woman to marry.



    merapi
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    Lady Sue,
    its the same old story, not only in Indonesia but also in Holland, men are afraid for smart women en nice looking women; everywhere it takes problems.
    They dont want competition, and not at all smart brains by women.
    Beauty is tempory, but brains not.....



    AnisJ
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    Dear
    ,

  • I think that your topic is not that easy to react, because like a diamant , it is not easy to compare it with a brilliant ; it has many fasets to look at ....
    ,it has a lot more in common with the way how we humans are and how we look at certain issues/topics like yours ....... and also 'cultural background'.


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    Thole21
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    Zannehow,

    I just try to make it simple since Lady Sue gave (what looks like) a simple question to her brother. It's also based on his (what it seems to be) simple answer. It wasn't based on any science whatsoever since I believe no scientific conclusion can be made on that matters. Besides, who are we to judge what's beautiful and what's intelligent? It's relative.

    As for me, of course I would like to find a good looking intelligent woman but... In my own term, my egotistic term. Whether she would be beautiful and intelligent for others, I don't care. Therefore, I believe we shouldn't worry too much about what is beautiful and what is intelligent. If those beauty pageant foundation thinks that a beutiful woman should be tall, slim and so forth, then so be it. I don't think I have to agree with them. Everyone can only defined it, but I doubt we can reach conclusion on how it's supposed to be. Emoticon: Stupid



    zannehow
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    Okay Thole21,

    Nice to hear to hear you adhere to your own standards rather than take a conformist view. Agree also too much time is given these days to speculation about beauty, in particular. It is needless busy work. Far more important things to worry about like the Environment!




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