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Albert
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Last week The clerics said that voting for women as leaders was forbidden under Islam.

But there is no protest nor anything to be found about it in this forum. Not even by the woman readers of this forum. Emoticon: Confused


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

diederick
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It were not THE clerics, but some clerics of the NU who issued this edict. There are so many clerics in Indonesia - i skip even the question what a cleric is under suni islam-, and all have their specific opinions. As far as I can see now this edict backfires more on them, then that in general people here are really taken this serious.



bagusdewe
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>I can see some interesting developments re this topic too.....
>looks to me the wind blows to the other direction
>Megawati doesn't have to do anything...
>Can somebody tell me: is it true that Megawati actually went to OXFORD UNIVERSITY as the same time as BILLY CLINTON? (THEY BOTH ARE a GOOD FRIENDS I'm told)



Jeroen
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Don't know about the relations between Megawati and Clinton. Knowing Clinton from the media, is must be having a good and intimate relation with her (okay, it's boring, but hey.. )

Clerics from NU indeed announced that voting for a woman would be punished. NU however is the biggest islamic organisation in Indonesia with over 40 juta members, quite big.



diederick
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As far as my sources say:
Megawati studied psychology and agriculture at the Pajajaran university but did not graduate (due to ousting by Suharo it seems). I know the preoccupation in Indonesia for academic titles but she never went to Oxford.
Clinton studied politics at Oxford. He didn't inhale cannabis at that time.
They met when Megawati did a tour in Arkansas (a rice producer for the USA) when he was governor. Later she was invited to his inaugeration as president.



aliakbar
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On 08-06-2004 09:11 Albert wrote:
Last week The clerics said that voting for women as leaders was forbidden under Islam.

But there is no protest nor anything to be found about it in this forum. Not even by the woman readers of this forum. Emoticon: Confused



Why should they care to protest when they are busy dating, enjoying , having fun , Some are cooking at home , busy watching TV,,,,,,

Rgds
Aliakbar


www Jakarta through the Eyes of an Expat

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I'm a woman, too! But l can't care less about the issue. Why? Because l don't want another or the same woman to rule this country. l want SBY to be the next president, he has the character and everything it takes to be one. Emoticon: Yes!


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

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See, what l'm trying to say here is, were l a fan of Meg, perhaps l would go out on the street and hold a demo for her, but l'm not so l won't.
Can this be a perimeter to why only 200 women joined the demo condemning NU's fatwa? Simply because many other women are not her fans?


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

juffy
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Dear Albert,
Please don’t get upset. The following is not directed against you personally. I appreciate you very much as character of this forum.
But for me, just the title of the topic is characteristic for the present situation: “Where are the woman to let us hear their protest”?
It is NOT the affair of “those women” only!! It’s our all affair!!! How come that the intellectual capacity of a human being might be judged just on the length of an anatomic detail??? It is puerile!!! Even more than the following deduction:

If men are better for a leader role than women, then the “supplementary male leadership capacity” has to come from the “supplementary tissue” grown there, the only apparent supplement men have. Next step: That would mean that males think / lead with this device. Hehehe!?!.... Or rather not hehehe? May be it’s really true..... a rather sad affair....
Well, let’s flush this idea...
Best regards. Juffy




stijn
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"President Megawati Sukarnoputri criticize the Indonesian community and especially the female part, for not supporting a female candidate."

This headline of SCTV is shocking. I think people should choose their president because of the expected policy not on the base of gender.

www.liputan6.com/fullnews/79846.html (bahasa Indonesia)



Albert
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Hi to al off you.

I fully agree that Mega should not be next president. But for me it is not Mega president yes or no because of Islam.

But the idea that a woman cannot be president just because she is a woman.

And yes it should also be a topic for us man, to complain.

Do those guys think they are so wonderfull so much better then a woman?


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

juffy
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Thank you, Albert ! Might your words be heard ! Salam, Juffy



diederick
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I find the replies off Kinanti Pinta very disturbing. It is not about Megawati, it is not about SBY. It is about the fact that some ulama's from the NU state that women cannot be leaders. So you Kinanta - if you would have the ambition - can never be a president, or director, or manager or whatever leadership function you would be qualified to, just because you are a woman, according to this clerics. You should indeed protest - and with you all Indonesian women who have more ambitions then to cook a dinner for their husband- against this blatant women hate (that only resembles in a way the disgust for women that some Paris fashion designers have, but they are gay, which I don't think this Ulama's are, or think they are, or are cryptowise -considering they favour to be with male amongst eachother as a boy club)



stijn
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On 09-06-2004 19:23 diederick wrote:
I find the replies off Kinanti Pinta very disturbing. It is not about Megawati, it is not about SBY. It is about the fact that some ulamas from the NU state that women cannot be leaders.


I agree that this is what this discussion is really about. Offcourse women can be competent leaders. But I don`t agree that to demonstrate would be the best option for Kinanti right now, cos it will be seen as support for Megawati. The discussions in the media, at work ,at this forum and at home are of the same importance I think.

Demonstrations probably will give the statements of this clerics more importance than they diserve. I think the Indonesian people will never choose the Saudi way of Islam. Religion affairs and state affairs should be separated anyway.



bagusdewe
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On 08-06-2004 16:17 diederick wrote:
As far as my sources say:
Megawati studied psychology and agriculture at the Pajajaran ..................
They met when Megawati did a tour in Arkansas (a rice producer for the USA) when he was governor. Later she was invited to his inaugeration as president.

>Thank you deiderick fyi
>I was told that the invitation from Billy to Mega wasn't handed out to her (or was "filtered" by Suharto's special advisers?),
>So she didn't know that she was invited by good old Billy Clinton.....
>she was prevented to leave Indonesia by Suharto adminstration on that occasion?





bagusdewe
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On 09-06-2004 03:52 kinanti pinta wrote:
Im a woman, too! But l cant care less about the issue. Why? Because l dont want another or the same woman to rule this country. l want SBY to be the next president, he has the character and everything it takes to be one. Emoticon: Yes!


>Hello Kinanti
>how are you?

>No..... Pinta.......
>We have to look at things from diferent angles..according to its merit!
>What happens if there is another "FEMALE PERSON" with similar credentials or even better than Megawati.....who might be better and more capable than Mega?
>This is 21st century......
>The way we look at the person sitting next to us is... should be as a PERSON....not the scars-the look..the "PIERE CARDIN" outfits....not from this person's sexual's gender & statistics......
But as what we are doing right now.... we listen to you....we responded to you....... because the infos that you bring forward to this forum.....because of the valid arguments etc etc..(because you stated/declared that your gender category is as a "female-person") otherwise we wouldn't notice at all.....

>Means that if in any chance you are thinking of becoming the Indon's next president.... well......

>You'll never know if you'd never go.....
>Lets ask Desi if she wants to be a President!!!!!!!
>>That will be fun!
>CAPRES "PINTA"
>CAPRES "DESI"
>CAPRES.... Anybody else??





Desi Clark
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Ok guys..what are you whining about?? Woman as a President??? No Fear my friends.... Vote for me..No: 34B .!! My promise is: Together WE go to Heaven...HA HA HA

Desi




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