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Yogya-Bali
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On 01-01-2007 17:32 indahs wrote:

I think it is important that both of you know what you want instead of what her parents want. At some point I believe that she was being influenced by her family instead of what both you as couple need to be together. It is so typical Indonesian parents (and sometimes the extended family!! huaaa Emoticon: Angry ) that they interfere their childrens marriage life. If it is too much I dont find it funny anymore.


Well, the fact that she was forcing Tiler in changing religion and even in a circumcision is one big prove that she herself is behind it (maybe supported by her relatives). So I don't think that there's any love; otherwise one doesn't force his/her love one in doing things against his/her principles. If a woman/man forces her partner to do above mentioned things, then you can be sure for 100% that there's nothing about love but all about powerplay and overruling the other.




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morning tiler...if you falling in love with someone really, without forcing by any people than i will support you if not....you will end up fight and divorced.

marshabrissie



papaya
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Are you kidding?

After what you wrote you still do need advise?

- You found out that she was cheating on you?
- She was a mistress for a rich business man?
- She is also constantly pushing you to invest in property near her parents house?

I give you one advise...

Dump That Bitch!

Good Luck Emoticon: Stupid


Happiness is not a destination, it's a Way of Living

dtotays
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Tiler, you are NOT a Dutch citizen you said. If you happen to be a US citizen then there is no problem whatsoever. All you need to do is go to the US embassy in Jakarta who will refer you to a certified laboratory to get a DNA test (expensive, around a thousand US dollars) done. The result of this DNA test will prove that your daughter is yours. On the basis of the DNA results, the US embassy will, within days, issue a "Consular Report Of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America" which states that your daughter has acquired United States citizenship at birth. The subsequent issuance of a US passport for your daughter is then only a formality...... Good luck man!! Emoticon: Yes!



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Tyler,
I am not perfect but my advice would be to first find out if the baby is yours. If the baby is not yours, get the hell out. It sounds like that you do not really dig that chick. Though we cannot change the past, in future make sure that you use protection when you are having sex. Emoticon: Party!



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Circumscised is always required (wajib).
See also Surah An-Nahl 123 .


This is just incorrect as far as I am concerned. There are many views on this topic. Al-Quran never states that circumcision is necessary in these words. It's one of those appendencies, "good advice" of Muhammed, so to say. Like cutting fingernails often and shaving. All part of the hygiene...

Not all religious leaders require this. At least I happened to find a few in Jakarta...


And she cannot married with non muslim .!!!!


If she'd want to stay muslim, you're correct, but of course it's optional to leave the religion (although I really doubt that's a reasonable thing to put your hopes on...)



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I like to warn you. Be very carreful! Not always, Indonesian grils can be nice and manis (sweet). But when you a westerner there is always the question: does she really loves me, or loves she my money. Don't give it the benefit of the doubt. I'am over 50 years old and girls of 25 years (can be my daughter) like to marry. In Holland they call me a old goat. In Indonesia: no problem!
May be you already gone to far!



tiler
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Indahs - Thanks for your input. It's nice to have a female's point of view on the subject. I also agree that people can change. So that also makes things more complicated.

Yogya-Bali - It seems we have acted on wrong or outdated advice. I found my information from www.expat.or.id. Basically, the article said that if the couple weren't married, then make a statement with a notaris indicating I'm the father. This statement could then be presented when we applied for our baby's birth certificate. The birth certificate would then have my name written on it as the father. However, when my partner and I showed the lady at the government office our notaris letter. She just shook her head and said there's no the father's name could go on the certificate if we're not married. So it does seem it was quite possibly a waste of time.



tiler
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Below is the advice I followed from www.expat.or.id. I wouldn't suggest anyone take this approach as it doesn't work...

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Procedures for Registering the Birth of a Child
Children born out of wedlock

In the case of wanting the expat father's name on the birth certificate, if the couple is NOT married: The names on the birth certificate will be your child's name, the mother's name and the father's name. You can put your name as the father. Before your Indonesian girlfriend has the baby, go to a notaris and make a statement that the two of you are not married. The notaris will issue the signed statement with a reference number and you should give this statement to the administration at the hospital where your child is born. You can arrange it so that only the reference number of the statement goes onto the birth certificate. There will be no words such as "born out of wedlock" or "lahir diluar nikah", just the child's name the mother's name and the father's name with the reference number of the statement.

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tiler
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papaya - Your advice is sound, but you're forgetting one thing. We now have a child together who I have grown to love. Believe me, if there were no child involved, my partner and I wouldn't still be together.

dtotays - I'm taking that line of investigation now. I think my daughter will be able to get citizenship no worries. The only question after that, is how much legal right to her will that give me.



sidia
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If people live in Indonesian soil , dont forget the Indonesian Law.
Also the Islamic Law.

pse read almost the same situation
http://hukumonline.com/klinik_detail.asp?id=5069
http://www.apik-or.id/fact51-bwh%tangan.htm

see UU Perkawinan n0 1 thn 1974 -43
KUH Perdata (ex BW) no 284(need cooperation of the mother)


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

havana45
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just get your fun out of this relationship and than bail out!!!!!!!!!!!!



andre
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Good luck tiler. You're in a difficult situation for which there is no "easy fix" or "escape button".

If you have the time and the money: Go home for two weeks, maybe a month. Indonesia can put a spell on you and the only way to break it is to take a holliday outside the country.

Then take the desicions that involve the three of you.



lt-oddball
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from what I gather is that you are not all too happy with this woman, but you do want to be responsible for the child.

The solution is maximization of happiness to all:

You: break with the woman (also "religiously" ) but agree on a monthly (not yearly !..big amounts tend to get spent on luxury items..motocycle,parents expenses, loans to neighbours and what not..) support for the child such that it is guaranteed a proper education and healthcare.
(but ask for receipts.. just to make it difficult for them..).
Agree upon having the right of free visiting your child.
You didn't particularly like the woman anyway. Now you have regained your freedom. (But do live somewhere else!).

The mother:
She keeps the child (let's face it; there is NO WAY that you can get the child away from her, ESPECIALLY in a country like Indonesia), and gets some financial support from you.
Judging her character I suppose she doesn't care too much about loosing face because of a divorce.
By having a child AND money, she has reached her highest goal in life.

The Child:
Will have the warmth and attention of a mother for the important first 7 years of his/her life. Will have education and health care thanks to Daddy (of course if there will be another daddy-in-law in the picture, you may decide to stop this support..). And by the time the child reaches 18 or 20 and feel the need to see her/his biological father, then you have no problem with receiving her/him.
If it is to ask for support for a higher education, you 'll be willing to do so. If it is for a new motorcycle and an appartment in Jakarta, then you know the bitchy genes of the mother have won over your genes and you can close the door.

Emoticon: Devil Emoticon: Smile

PS legal-the law-illegal..in Indonesia things like that do not matter, what matters is money, and contacts.

I guess you have money and that family don't ?
If you as a foreigner work and live in Indonesia eternally then you may consider the following illegal but common practice:

Disappear to another location, find another woman or nanny and abduct the child at a certain moment under the pretences that that family can not take care of your child (after all it is YOUR child too).
Exclamating that the mother is a hooker, has aids, and her parents have financial problems (they always do).
Before anyone can react jump in the car and whisk off.
Police won't help her because they are not spending enough money on the police.
Should the police have the resources and intelligence and perseverence ( W)(totally unlikely) to look you up on your workplace then explain calmly that you are the father and that only a court order can have the child being taken away and that the mother IS a hooker and have aids...and pay the officers 100 USD.
Emoticon: Shut up!
problem solved.

well, insofar they are poor and decent people..
Going to court is too expensive and takes too long.
So that is Ok.
But.. your new girlfriend must like to take care of that child (a nanny is better)., and the ex should not be thinking of hiring criminals to kill you.. Emoticon: Confused Should that idea arise then you can bluff it by stating that you can hire more and deadlier criminals...but this is up to you to assess...

But leaving indonesia with the child now is impossible.
(except this US thing might help.. but not legally;
at the airport they ask for written /signed agreement of the mother to have you fly with the baby..only if you fake this paper, could this work... the legal way is go to court and have the now US baby assigned to you ...well, forget that..).
Emoticon: I love it



tiler
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andre - That's very true. I'm actually on holiday in my home country now. It's been a great chance to relax and clear my head. It's also given me time to find this website and such helpful people.

it-oddball - Thanks for going to the time of providing such a detailed solution. Your first solution makes a lot of sense to me.

I think it would be very difficult to make the initial break. The first time I tried she spent the night outside my apartment door knocking and screaming until I let her in (more out of sympathy for the neighbours). I guess I'll just need to be tougher this time and put up with the short term stress. But yes, your plan does seem the wisest and best compromise long term.

As for the abduction - admittedly its briefly entered my mind, but it's not something I could do. Despite the negative attributes I've detailed about my partner, she does still love her daughter and I couldn't completely take her away from her.



manon
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ouch! I think that your are trapped! Be honest! How long is this road going on? Forever?In this relationship; there is always an element of strong manipulating- don't you think so? if you really make that choice than it's all right if not: cut if off! Than you give each individu of you two a new chance! Be honest to yourself, to your fiancee (????) and to your baby. Children do not like parents when they are unhappy and do unhappy and act happy! then parents are not real parents: they are too busy with each other than with their children. Children are emotional creatures. Then children will be unhappy too. Do you like that? You only live once!





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just makes sure when you learn the culture of that country, you should understand pretty sure about the tradition as well



papaya
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Hi Tiler,
Most depended women around the globe are like this. If you don't have the money, just tell her you can't buy a house for your family. If she leaves you for this reason, it's better that way. She will be no good for you. If she tries to make your financial situation better by taking a job, that would be perfect but many Indonesian with a bule boyfriend are ashamed to take a job. I think you should make her clear that she can't get anything she wants.
Good luck!


Happiness is not a destination, it's a Way of Living


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