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Ruben
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If you really wants to know under what kind of pressure Christian people lives in Indonesia, please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piPgfKjC8hE&NR

It makes me really sad to see this!

Indonesia is NOT as it is promoting itself as an 'Unity in Diversity'...so I am wondering if there is any reason for not boycotting Indonesia???





balibreeze
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Ruben thanks for bringing this and face an other Indonesia nowadays...
They need a new leader as Suharto ....


sing ken ken bli....

Jantje
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No wonder muslims never or hardly ever dare to critisize their "brothers" I will never critisize Islam anymore. This makes me catatonic and xenofobic. In fact it makes me puke! Emoticon: Angry Even it's only a few... A few?? Emoticon: Confused Are these the things we should ignore, don't pay any attention to? Hark...I hear a sound... is that moderate muslim brothers condemning?. No.ofcourse not!..it's the sound of commen sense: Expell al muslim extremists from Holland. Stop building mosques, muslim schools or hospitals. This is a dangerous tidal wave drowning this country, supported by left wing poliics and their mob. Emoticon: Angry



Ruben
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I agree with balibreeze. Democracy doesn't work in a country such as Indonesia...it does not have the mentality for a democracy!



JohanN
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Ruben, I must say, quite an impressive powerpoint presentation Emoticon: Wink
personally, I m more impressed by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIlXJFRES1g
You have to be a member of youtube....



Begin de details te vergeten

ardianto
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On 03-12-2006 13:36 Jantje wrote:
Expell al muslim extremists from Holland. Stop building mosques, muslim schools or hospitals. This is a dangerous tidal wave drowning this country, supported by left wing poliics and their mob. Emoticon: Angry


It has been proven moslim extremists just don't fit and don't want to fit in a western society with western values. The results are obvious. Besides, the Dutch Parliament has failed big time with their lacking "integration" program.

Example: Female moslem teachers who doesn't want to shake a male's hand.. . "...Mwuaahh... let's accept each other, then everything will work out fine in the end.".. ..were basically the words of Commissie Gelijke Behandeling, while we all know teachers are instructed to teach children the Dutch values, believes and culture. Not the Islamic ones.

In reality, according to the Islam, a real moslim has 2 options in the western world, convert their environment around them into Islam, or going back and settle down in a Muslim country (there is a arabic phrase for that, I'm sorry , I forgot).

That explains Mr. Geert Wilders goes from 0 seats in the Parliament, to a whopping 9. Dutch people are fed up with a Parliament with vague plans for islamizing Holland. They either choose far right, or far left.

There you go. During the election, the Dutch society has spoken. But Belanda will never be the same again.

salam,
ardianto




Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is ge´ntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

sidia
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On 04-12-2006 11:16 ardianto wrote:

...


Its proven moslim extremists just dont fit and dont want to fit in a western society with western values.

There you go. Belanda will never be the same again.

Yes its proven.
But what about the other moslims ? The moderates moslims.
Like OmSid ?

True , Negri Belanda is change . Emoticon: Smile


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

ardianto
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Om Sid orangnya kayaknya baik kok Emoticon: Smile

I don't think we in Holland have major problems with muslims who are willing to fully integrate (includes: adapt) into the Dutch culture, as long as they realize that the Dutch culture, values and believes are (and forever will be) the always ruling and dominating ones. This includes to accept and adhere to the fact that Holland has a jewish-christian origine.

Unfortunately, the notorious Dutch tolerance (which headlined even CNN when the pedophile party was established in Holland...) has now taken it's toll.

salam,
ardianto





Quiz: Noem 3 westerse landen waar Islam succesvol is ge´ntegreerd. Oke, noem er eentje dan

AnisJ
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On 04-12-2006 13:35 ardianto wrote:
Om Sid orangnya kayaknya baik kok Emoticon: Smile

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • Memang orang yang kaya ...... tapi itu tergantung dari posisinya dari mereka ...
    Dutch rich people, from 'middle-class' till 'upper-class' are positive towards 'foreigners' aslong as they are not 'threatened' by them ..... in their own 'position in society' ........ otherwise ..... we will have the same atitude(s) towards 'foreigners'(read: non-West/Europeans) ........
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I dont think we in Holland have major problems with muslims who are willing to integrate (includes: adapt into the Dutch culture)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • ....................... "there we go again ....... there is a difference between 'adaptation' and 'integration'
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    , as long as they realize that the Dutch culture, values and believes are (and forever will be) the always ruling and dominating ones. This includes to accept and adhere to the fact that Holland has a jewish-christian origine.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • Yes, you have an argument what even the pope is accepting, I understand that he want the 'bourka' expelled ..... because Europe' s origins are the 'Jewish-Christian values' , besides it is the 'birthground of Western Christiany' ...............
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unfortunately, the notorious Dutch tolerance (which headlined even CNN when the pedophile party was established in Holland...) has now taken its toll salam,
    ardianto.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • I think 'Dutch tolerance' had changed throughout the years from the seventies till nowadays 2006 ....... we must not forget that although the Christian political party of the Dutch prime-minister mr. Balkenende is not leading the national dicussion of 'Normen en Waarden' by stating what they think religious values in 'modern society' should be, the discussion-initiative
    of their view on Dutch values , is left over for a (conservative) Liberal political party of VVD , with its main representative of Rita Verdonk ......
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    searching
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    Om Sid orangnya kayaknya baik kok

    I don't think we in Holland have major problems with muslims who are willing to fully integrate (includes: adapt) into the Dutch culture, as long as they realize that the Dutch culture, values and believes are (and forever will be) the always ruling and dominating ones. This includes to accept and adhere to the fact that Holland has a jewish-christian origine.

    Unfortunately, the notorious Dutch tolerance (which headlined even CNN when the pedophile party was established in Holland...) has now taken it's toll.

    salam,
    ardianto


    That's a very good summary. A strict moslems who follow Quran and Hadiths, including the notion to islamize the country/place where they stay, will have conflict with the society.
    The western society has been patient enough, but their patience has run out.


    Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

    AnisJ
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    On 05-12-2006 08:19 searching wrote: ......................
    Thats a very good summary. A strict moslems who follow Quran and Hadiths, including the notion to islamize the country/place where they stay, will have conflict with the society.
    The western society has been patient enough, but their patience has run out.


    "..... probably their patience is running out, or is it not whispered in the ears of the Dutch men/women in the street by some politicians like Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk ....... but this does not mean they should make the whole Islamatic religious society in the Netherlands responsable ......"



    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    searching
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    "..... probably their patience is running out, or is it not whispered in the ears of the Dutch men/women in the street by some politicians like Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk ....... but this does not mean they should make the whole Islamatic religious society in the Netherlands responsable ......"

    Not by the people in power, as long as I know - they want to adhere to multiculturalism as much as they want, even by lying to their own people. But people see and start to feel the bitter reality.
    You might also read in pooling to the muslim community, that many of them don't think terrorism as something really worth condemning and they will not reveal or betray their brother muslim should they have information. {I read it in a news, about pooling in Britain, not in Holland)
    So, what do you expect? The problem is, most of the problem comes from a certain religious follower, namely islam, because it can't get along with other culture. As you may notice, the idea of Islam is to DOMINATE.
    We can talk about this longer.


    Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

    AnisJ
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    On 05-12-2006 10:56 searching wrote:................
    You might also read in pooling to the muslim community, that many of them dont think terrorism as something really worth condemning and they will not reveal or betray their brother muslim should they have information. {I read it in a news, about pooling in Britain, not in Holland)

  • Is this so, ........ or is it more and more the ambivilancy they are in, that is why most of them do not like to express their own view ..... otherwise everybody else, like Christians, would notice the various faces of Islam ... and that there is not only one interpretation ........ in Christianity we had learned to accept different views throughout many ages of Christian Thinking .........

    So, what do you expect? The problem is, most of the problem comes from a certain religious follower, namely islam, because it cant get along with other culture. As you may notice, the idea of Islam is to DOMINATE.We can talk about this longer.

  • In the development of Christianity, after so many ages, christians have already passed this stage ........ besides we have learned to accept other sects too.
  • We even accept Secularism .......
  • But I think still we are able to learn from Islamists the meaning of Spiritism in relegion like it exist in Suf´sm ........


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


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