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Aangirfan
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Does the CIA control Indonesia?

The CIA toppled Sukarno and put Suharto into power.

Allegedly, the CIA toppled Suharto.

Allegedly, the CIA played a part in the Bali Bomb plot.

The next president may be a general who was trained in the USA.



Jeroen
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Don't know about it and I don't want to either. The (my) world is good as it is now.. Emoticon: Puh!



Albert
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I also do not know, and in fact all those political talk about the USA is boring me.

Who knows the Usa might one day attack Indonesia like what it did in the past to others. Emoticon: Bye bye

Then everybody will pray to Allah and God please let the Dutch come back. Emoticon: Yes!


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

stijn
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Blaming or scapegoating others is an easy way to create a distraction away from your own problems..
Some of the allegations above will contain some truth though..
Just like there probably is some truth in the allegations of involvement of JI in the Bali bombings....
Or that students protesting KKN and the loosing of legitmacy played a part in the fall of the Orba.

I hope the USA will never bomb a country again. It only creates suffering and a world in chaos. If the dutch will come they will be kicked out the country again. Like in the past.. and like in srebrenica.




Albert
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If the dutch will come they will be kicked out the country again. Like in the past.. and like in srebrenica.


Correction;
Not so long ago I wrote that the Dutch have not been kicked out by anyone.
The Dutch were worned by the UN, that if we did not leave the Russians will kick us out of the Dutch/Indisch.
The UN was informed by the US.

So we could choose;
1) Stay and go to wore with Russia
(who had 5 submarines waiting nearby)
2) Or leave Indonesia.

The Indonesian people be happy that the Dutch left, or else if the Dutch were kicked out by the Russians. Indonesia would have become Comunist country like East Europe after being liberated from the Germans.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

Desi Clark
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I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but dont feel like creating a new subject...

If I could turn back time,,, I wish Indonesia was colonized by British, the country would be much better!


Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.

Jeroen
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On 02-06-2004 23:17 Desi Clark wrote:
I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but dont feel like creating a new subject...

If I could turn back time,,, I wish Indonesia was colonized by British, the country would be much better!

do you really think so? Nah... Malaysia maybe better-organised today, but look at India... Emoticon: Puh! (hmm.. they can organise proper elections though Emoticon: Wink )



Aangirfan
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On 15 May, a CIA plane bombed the Ambon marketplace, killing a large number of civilians on their way to church on Ascension Thursday.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The USA bombed Indonesia.

http://members.aol.com/bblum6/indo1.htm

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.




Aangirfan
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The Observer July 28, 1996

BRITISH ROLE IN SLAUGHTER OF 500,000

Mark Curtis

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Aangirfan
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The Independent (London)

December 1, 1998

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Aangirfan
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The Independent (London)

April 16, 2000

HEADLINE: MI6 SPREAD LIES TO PUT KILLER IN POWER;
REVEALED: HEALEY ADMITS ROLE IN BRITISH DIRTY TRICKS CAMPAIGN TO OVERTHROW INDONESIA'S PRESIDENT SUKARNO

Paul Lashmar And James Oliver

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Aangirfan
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Malaysia General News

April 18, 2000

MI6 OVERTHREW SUKARNO
Wan A Hulaimi
LONDON, April 18, 2000

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Aangirfan
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Jakarta Post

June 2, 2002 Sunday

Soeharto and the grand scheme of things

Carmel Budiardjo

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Aangirfan
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Belfast Telegraph

October 17, 2002

West has played a major role By Eamonn McCann

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswi(...)e.php?story_id=65047

.... [snip] ....

Moderator said: a link is enough when you post complete stories.



Jeroen
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Aangirfan,

It's good to post messages, but links are more than enough in this case. Direct copies of articles is not needed because it floods the forum and makes it unpleasant for people to read. Those who want to read can simply click the link.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Yerun Emoticon: Smile



stijn
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>The Dutch were worned by the UN, that if we did not leave the Russians will kick us out of the Dutch/Indisch.
>The UN was informed by the US.

There are even more similarities between Srebrenica and the handover of power to the Republik Indonesia in 1949 then I thought. A threat was enough to leave...

I still think it was wise to leave even if there was no Russian threat
(from a military perspective, it was also the just/right thing to do from a humanitarian perspective). The Dutch would probably be engaged in a very longlasting (and costly) guerillawar and considering the times were changing after British kolonial retreat from India at the end there would be no legitimacy for the Dutch pressence left anyway. They could not win. You can have more military power, but in the end you will need legitimacy to receive the support of the population you occupy and the support from back home as well...
The determination of the peoples of Indonesia would make the difference, I think..



diederick
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I think Stijn has a point here. And what kind of difference would 5 Russian submarines do (although I never heard that story, and before 1949, are you not mistaken with the New Guinea period, Albert?)? Maybe I can add that the whole post-colonial period of Indonesia (so after 1945) was quite complicated from the Dutch point of view. It never had the full support and backing of the Dutch people, nor the politicians. It was mainly driven by KVP (Catholic party). Anyway I like to say that it is not a clearcut case, and the involvement of the USA or UN was never decisive, although of major influence.
For Desi..... Indonesia has experienced British rule, from 1811 until 1816 under the infamous Raffles (who later created the shopping center Singapure). He was rather tough on the indigenous. Under his rule , for instance, the cultural capital of Java, Yogjakarta, was looted.
Finally, I have the instinct that Angirfaan is a brother of Budowono1 or Shuisheng (SAW). His stories ar as ridiculous. God bless the USA because you can blame them for everything....



budowono1
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On 01-06-2004 23:09 Aangirfan wrote:
Does the CIA control Indonesia?

The CIA toppled Sukarno and put Suharto into power.

Allegedly, the CIA toppled Suharto.

Allegedly, the CIA played a part in the Bali Bomb plot.

The next president may be a general who was trained in the USA.



No they r teroris trying but Indoneasia take orders from no one .
eccept DPR atau Presiden.

G30s is prove RI will not be intimidate by USA teroris..

every one know what happen with PKI but never answer why..
cuz Bung karno forbid us to be Kapitalis but him selve was biggest Kapitalis cuz he Forbid people speak belanda but he and his Delegasi speak Belanda.
he our leader and father of Indonesia done every thing he thaght us was bad.
he nagociated with America while he telling us they Evil.
he became a popet to the highest payer.

2.5 Milion Civilions died cuz of his blindness and greed .
i always respected him more than any one on earth i was willing to die for him and he turn away from us.





stijn
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This is a song I once wrote when I was the singer of a band:

The truth is an accepted lie,
So that is the reason why,
Some truths are not accepted,
Or even totaly rejected,
Silence is gold, the truth not,
I' ll better keep my mouth shut,
Silence is gold the truth not,
Why don't I keep my mouth shut.

Everyone has his own experiences, upbringing, education, so it`s very difficult to know the absolute Truth about things that happened. The truth in your eyes can be the lie of another. There always are some facts on which you can try to reach the Truth though. But while trying to reach it always respect and bear in mind the truth of another.



budowono1
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On 09-06-2004 12:28 stijn wrote:
But while trying to reach it always respect and bear in mind the truth of another.


i did that i've studied sejarah all my life i used to follow Soekarno blindly thinking his way was truth but than i met a man named (Kol)Muhammad-Sutarjo he sayed ya i was PKI he showned me thing why PKI was he showned me that what soekano and even i refused to see.
all my life i hated Capitalism but infact people like my family where the real Capitalists.

all my life i have judged peiople because of there family back ground and Kasta thinking i am above them cause i am a ellite but Sutarjo showned me it is what we are acusing our enamies of but we are even worsh.

How could i have been so blind and filled with arrogance and pride.
but i still see America as no 1 Enamy of RI.
CIA and Islam are enamy of real Indonesia.


but is it wrong to want stop beleef in Soekarno and say Let-Kol untung was wright aboud him ...........................?????



AnisJ
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Aangirfan yth.,

Of course they are in control !!!
'But I find your question an open door !!!'
Try to turn it around: 'Suppose INDO.n.sia is a superpower, would it do the samething like the U.S.A. ???
A superpower has one big problem: to stay strong !!!
Other countries have it ,more easier: To get strong !!!
If you want to know about the influence the U.S.A have in INDO.n.sia
, you have to read about it and find the info they themselves provide; verificate wether they are good informed or not !!!
Otherwise their info is based on false intelligence !!!

Greets .... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

nona
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I agree with Desi, I think it would be organized, dont forget Jerun the dutch stayed for 350 years Indonesia, if you look back the history, it was a lof of painfull. My opinion the dutches only left us old building , in fact now in living prove we as indonesian just being forgotten.

dont take personal, I think we can not compare between Indonesia with India, which we had different cultures and background.





AnisJ
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"Is there any difference between a bite from a cat or a dog ???"
I do not think the British would make any difference; but like somebody say:
"In every advantage you will find a disadventage and the other way around !!!"
If one look at INDOnesias potential and its performance the outcome is not quite confincing .... it is low.
So 2005: Jaman Bahru : new game, new chance(s) ???
If there is any interest I can show you the sites what the Americans officially know about INDOnesia, about unofficial things you have to ask the CIA Emoticon: Wink ; well known is their handbook of countries.

Greets .... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sidia
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Double Dutch


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

AnisJ
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Sidia yth.,

'Are you refering towards me ???'
'What do you not understand Sid. ???'
So ... explain.
To get a Dutch kid, it takes a 'double Dutch'; preferable a man and a woman to realise this miracle !!! Emoticon: Wink

Greets Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


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