indahnesia.com - Discover Indonesia Online

    
You are currently in > Forum > General chat > View topic

17-01-2015 18:16 · [news] Three more bodies of AirAsia victims to Surabaya hospital  (1 reaction)
17-01-2015 01:23 · [news] Fuel prices lowered, again  (2 reactions)
17-01-2015 00:14 · [news] President dismisses Sutarman as national police chief  (0 reactions)
16-01-2015 12:44 · [news] Alleged terrorists shot dead three villagers in Poso  (3 reactions)
16-01-2015 02:15 · [news] Indonesia to execute six drug convicts  (0 reactions)

rdickread
User
spacer line
 

I am writing a book on Indonesian migration to Africa in the 1st millennium AD, and the influence Indonesians had on African culture. My research suggests that the people involved may have been from Sulawezi - the ancestors of the Bajo, Bugi and Makassar. The migrations may have started in Roman/Greek times (possibly even earlier) with the export of spices, particularly cinnamon and cassia from Indonesia to the Horn of Africa - from where they travelled, and settled, down the African coast, and from where they eventually peopled the island of Madagascar. I believe the Zanj people of the African coast, who have been mentioned in Africa from the days of Pliny to the Arab writers a thousand years later, may have originally been of Indonesian stock - related to the people of Zanaj or Zabag of Sumatra/Java. The likelihood here is that the mariners employed by the early Indian states - Kan-to-li, Srivijaya, etc - were drawn from the magnificent sailing fraternities of Sulawezi. I further believe that Indonesians rounded the Cape of Good Hope and spread their influence in Nigeria and other parts of West Africa, partricularly in relation to the spread of plants, some diseases, music and musical instruments, and the art of bronze casting that led eventually to the famous Ife and Benin bronzes of Nigeria.
If anyone has any views on this, or useful information, I would like to hear from them. Robert Dick-Read. robert.dreadRemoved to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile.ntlworld.com in Winchester, England.



diederick
User
User icon of diederick
spacer line
 

Dear Robert,

Frankly, I don't believe anything of the above mentioned things (are they facts). Why should Sulawesi mariners or other Indonesain seafaring people go to Africa, while they had everything they wanted in South-East Asia (expand that to India for that matter). It is a bit like this Heyerdahl experiment. Sure you can go with a boat from Egypt to South-America, but where is the purpose. The expansionism of Europe was aimed at finding gold, spices or King John. They had a goal, that is why they want to expand.
That there are Indonesian influences in Africa can be partly attributed to the fact that a large number of slaves and a number of banished rebels from the Dutch East Indies were transferred to regions like South-Africa (or Sri Lanka). A large number of Ghanese military served in the colonial army in the Indies. Mocambiquan and Angolese served as policemen in Batavia and other places.



rdickread
User
spacer line
 

Oh dear, Diederick! Are you not aware that the people of M


diederick
User
User icon of diederick
spacer line
 

This is a bit of a secret, but i am a archivist, specialised in Dutch colonial history, now currently working in Jakarta.
Again, it can be true they speak a Austronesian language in Madagascar, but my sceptical question remains; where is the purpose?
Has this something to do with that infamous "Borobudur expediton" , A Thor Heyerdayl revisited part 2 exploiration?




rdickread
User
spacer line
 

Absolutely not, although Philip Beale's thinking was on the right lines when he planned the expedition. Where is the purpose? Where was the epurpose of people sailing from the islands to explore the Pacific? But there was more purpose than that in this case...... if you dig further b ack in your archives to Roman times you will see that there was very extensive trade acaross the Indian Ocean, and on to China via Funan, etc , etc. Indonesians were involved in this trade; in fact, as it is doubtful whether Indians had viable ocean-going ships in those days, it is probable that the great Kunlun-Po (as the Chinese called them) of Indonesia handles most of the shipping both for India and China. (There are Chinese records of kunlun-po being chartered). Another good reason..... Suvarnadvipa, the Island of Gold, as SUmatra/Java was known had a bit of gold of its own.... but if you look into Dutch Colonial records. (try R.W. van Bemmelen's "The Geology of Indonesia" Vol 11 Gov. Printing Office, The ague 1949 for a starter; plus e.g. Brian Colless "Were the gold mines of ancient Java in Borneo?" Emoticon: Wink you will see that there was very little gold in Indonesia - except Sumatra, and the Srivijayans were crazy about it (chec k books by Tom Harrisson and Oliver Wolters). Then.... where did all the gold of Zimbabwe go to? It was exported to somewhere ... Indonesian was most likely destination for a host of reasons.
Keep writing. But I have got to go, and will be away for a few days from tomorrow. This is a subject people should know more about if they are interested in Indonesian history. Robert



Desi Clark
User
User icon of Desi Clark
spacer line
 

We Homo sapiens just don't know how to treat family. Consider the fate of poor Java Man, an early human who lived some 700,000 years ago. In 1894, three years after his weighty skullcap and thigh bone were dug from the banks of an Indonesian river, his discoverer Eugene Dubois triumphantly declared him the missing link between apes and humans. Unfortunately for Dubois, scientists and the public derided his claim for four decades, until even Dubois himself lost faith. According to legend he went to his death insisting that his once-precious ape-man was actually a giant gibbon.

By the 1950s, the long-suffering Java Man finally got some respect. Acknowledging that he is neither ape-man nor gibbon, scientists renamed him Homo erectus and welcomed him as a card-carrying member of the human genus. But today scientists have yet another bone to pick with the hapless Java Man.

The question is this: Is he a direct ancestor of us modern humans or an indirect one? Do we occupy the same branch of the human family tree? Or do we Homo sapiens represent a younger twig that split off from Homo erectus to follow a different evolutionary path? More than the good name of Homo erectus is at stake. At the heart of the conflict lies perhaps the most profound and bitterly contested debate in anthropology -- the mystery of how our species came to dominate Earth.

There are a few points on which anthropologists agree. Most believe that 1 million to 2 million years ago, groups of brawny, thick-skulled Homo erectus began to migrate from their African homeland, eventually colonizing the Middle East, Europe and Asia.



Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.

JohanN
User
User icon of JohanN
spacer line
 

Hi Robert,
Is there a place where we can read more of your research?
Regards, Johan


Begin de details te vergeten

rdickread
User
spacer line
 

Johanli. Not yet. The book is lodged and being read by three (!) publishers at the moment. But if none of them go ahead I am thinking of publishing it on the net. Will tell you in due course. Regards. Robert



AnisJ
User
User icon of AnisJ
spacer line
 

Dear Robert,

I am glad that you have disclosed your topic !!!
For ... I will repeat what I have told you, probably other people have seen this documentary too ....
For already a while ago, years ..., I have seen on German television a documentary of the relationship of indigenous people of Madagascar with INDOnesia especially the Torajanese of Sulawesi island.
Italian antropologists discover a similarity the way certain Madagaqscans bury their deaths, with the Torajanese, as form their customs.

Greets .... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
User
User icon of AnisJ
spacer line
 

D. Robert,

I wonder wether you have also information about the famous Chinese seafarer Zeng He(Or: Ho ???), I have read that some of his voyages had been inspired by Malaysian (or INDOnesian ???) seafaring traders.
He went all the way from China to Africa, it is said that his coordinations of Mogadisyu/Moga Tisjew and Aden/A'ten were pickpointed on his maps !!!
Is he also a source of information for your research ???
For these are mostly written records that most of the traditional historical comunity accept, like our friend Diederick.

Greets ..... Anis; a lot of succes with your book, I am looking forward .....



'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


You have to be logged in to post a message. You can login by clicking here.
If you do not have an account yet, you can register yourself here.



77,761,485 topic views - 235,517 posts - 13,700 topics - 26,444 members - last post @ 16-12-2019 03:36 CET

Created by indahnesia.com · feedback & contact · © 2000-2019
Other websites by indahnesia.com: ticketindonesia.info · kamus-online.com · indonesiepagina.nl · suvono.nl

126,861,546 pageviews Discover Indonesia Online at indahnesia.com