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arzoo
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I am amazed that no one in here has spoken abt the latest horrifying
revelations on the wrong doings in the Iraqi prison ,,,,,,,,, personally I am just plain curious as to what the general attitude is towards this new happening ,,,,,,,,,would anyone like to share his or her opinion with me ,,,,,,,,,??
In last nights senate questioning of high authorities ----- it was mentioned that the "" LIFE IS VALUED "" namely by Americans ,,,,,,,,what abt the hundred n thousands of life of the Palestines ?? anyone ??????????
Arzoo : : :



Jeroen
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Hmm... it's probably because it's Indonesia in general, and not Iraq in general. Emoticon: Smile



Albert
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What about the hundreds of thousands of live the Al-quada ends (western people) with their bombs?
Why does no Muslim talk about that?

We also do not write anything about it.

Because like what Jeroen said, it is not about Indonesia. Emoticon: Yes!


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

arzoo
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Jeroen ,,,,after what we,ve seen n heard last night ---dont u shudder as to what d outcome maybe ,,,,,,,,,in general :(:(:( ,,,,,,,,,like d world in general will hv to witness ,,,,,,if things get really out of hand ??



Jeroen
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Ooh, believe me, I don't like those images of war as well, but the US has chosen for war and has to face the consequences, all of them. US Soldiers get killed, US soldiers abuse POWs. Yeah.. it's still war..



arzoo
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I guess its becoz the West does,nt ever mention d Jews ?? Do they ,dear Albert ?? Never hv we once ever heard any rational explanation as to y there were no Jews present at the twin towers on 9/11 ?? So much has been lost by way of credibility on the face of the west --------oh no ,, but how can they ever mention that Israel is force behind ??
I am new in here --does one only discuss indonesia in here ??



Jeroen
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I don't think the number of Jews killed (several hundred was the number I heard) has anything to do with the Iraqi POW's that are tortured.

For the rest this website is about Indonesia, so the forum is Indonesia as well. You can start an offtopic topic here occasionally, but it's mainly Indonesia here. Emoticon: Smile



arzoo
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Thanks Jeroen --appreciate yr help.
I am a little dissapointed though -coz I thot we cud hv some grtt discussions out here ------international topics as well .
Anyways ,, hope its going to be fun overall.
Arzoo



Jeroen
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Don't bother to continue your discussion here by the way. Emoticon: Smile



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Welcome Arzoo,
so you wanna talk about the iraqi prisoners abuse in abu ghraib and 9/11? Allright then, let me share my opinion on those gruesome topics. The Iraqi war (or Invasion to Iraq) is a tangled web. From the beginning the world has been led to believing an idea that Saddam possesed Weapons of Mass Destructions, therefore he shall be crushed and the Iraqi people must be given the freedom and democracy they deserve... you know what happened afterwards. Now Iraq is ruled by the Coalition authorities along with Government Council but still violence happens everywhere. The real Gulf War has just begun. An eye for an eye principle makes it a vicious circle there while in USA and UK the dirts begin to uncover themselves. First the contoversial dossier about Iraq weapons made by Blair's press secretary which made even worse by the suicide of an english weapon expert, dr david kelly. One thing leads to another and then the lates dirt: The abuse of Iraqi prisoners in abu ghraib prison, baghdad by GI Joes and Janes.
Working in news industries, l've seen lotsa abuse pictures and man, they're crazy indeed. The poor prisoners not only suffer from pysical pain but also humiliation and all dear mr Rumsfeld had to say was that USA will give compensation to the victims...
Arzoo, before other forum readers die of boredom, would you like to have my opinion about Middle East conflicts? Emoticon: Puh!


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

kleinsmann
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1st of all I'm against all kinds of war, so also the war in Iraq.
I already thought before the last cruel things happened that Bush should explain all his mistakes to the tribunal in Den Hague.
Personally I'm scared for Bush since he's just a marionette without much brains but with strong advisors around him who whisper in his ear what to do. More dangerous then terrorist in my sight....
I'm ashamed to our goverment (Dutch) who supports the US.


Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

kleinsmann
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Kinanti this is not boring...Go on!


Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

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Dank je wel, Martin (Yerun taught me the sentence, hehee)... Well, as l said before The Real Gulf War has just begun. Gun clashes and suicide/roadside bombs are daily occurence, many lives are lost and though Hemingway said that all is fair in love and war, but is it? When you see an Iraqi mother cries her heart out because she has just lost her son in one of the clashes, then you'll feel what l feel, that war is just never fair.

And the Palestine, man, how poor they are. They are forgotten in the midst of uproar in Iraq, and Israel takes full advantage of the situation. First they killed Syekh Ahmed Yassin, the founder of Hamas. Second, they killed Rantissi, the new Hamas leader.
Next target is certain as Sharon has stated: Yasser Arafat.
Still, the world has no comment. The world does not seem to care that The 3 million people of Palestine have every right to return to their homeland (captured by Israel in 1967 Middle East war). And so, my friends, the Middle East conflict is not about religion as many people have mistaken but this is about one nation struggling to get back what is rightfully belong to them, their state, their land, their freedom, their pride, their future.

Am l talking too much? Emoticon: Shut up!


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

kleinsmann
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What Hemingway means is that in love and war are no rules. He's not agreed that it's really fair but for us human it seems fair since always most horrible things happen..
Further I don;t have much more words on your story, I agree with it!
My biggest fear: The US tries slowly and on intelligent way to rule all the world. Their power is so huge and by supporting them we make them stronger and stronger. Sometimes I really think Bush has same targets as Hitler but only his way to get them is so different.Maybe more fair then Hitler but that makes them come further with it too.




Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

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I see what you mean. Let's hope Kerry will defeat Bush in November's presidential election. Am not saying that Kerry is better than Bush, it's just Kerry is a Democrat and traditionaly, Democrat presidents are more concerned about internal affairs and social welfare (tax cuts, better education, etc.). I don't really know about Dutch's foreign policy regarding USA. Friends or foes? Emoticon: Clown


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Jeroen
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Our Prime-Minister Harry Potter, whoops Jan Peter Balkenende is one of the closest allies with the US of A. Maybe they can give him a greencard, so we can get a new one...

please Desi, can you arrange a greencard for him ? Emoticon: Sadley



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Jan Peter Balkenende? Strange, l rarely see him in international news.. l mean, the latest foreign news l wrote about the Netherland was when the orange crown prince (forget his name) gave up his right to the throne to be able to marry a commoner. Talking about the power of love... Emoticon:


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Albert
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Let me tell you all of a much bigger disaster.
There are daily all over the world thousands of people dying from hunger.

Neither the west, The East, nor the Middle East care about it. Because why; the 10.000.000 people dying from hunger everyday are not located in one country.

Bush, Sharon, Bin Laden, Hamas, Al-quada, etc. They are all a threat to world peace. It is important that they all should be stopped.

We in the west condemn Bush and Sharon in our newspapers. 65% of the Dutch population say that the two of them are a treat of world peace.

But what I miss in Muslim countries that they do not condemn the Al-quada, Hamas, etc. Although they also kill other Muslims.

In Holland, all religions live in peace together. But because of the Al-quada and some Imans from Saudi Arabia, and other Muslim terrorist organisations, the peace becomes less and less in Holland.

Also, our Government does not do enough to keep the peace. To haunt done those who are destroying the peace.
Also, many Muslim does not even understand their Koran, because it is wrong explained by the Imans all over the world.
If you think that your Koran means with unbelievers, people from other religions you are wrong. Talk with somebody who knows much more about it. And not with some Iman who like to destroy the peace.

Also do many Muslims forget that Sadam killed more Muslim people then the west did during the Golf war I & II, in Iraq. How hard did Arafat try to work to create some peace, although Sharon tried his best to destroy it every time? Where were all the demonstrations against Sadam? When he killed 5.000.000 of his own people.

In the entire world, there are only a few people, who want to destroy peace on the world.
I think nore me nor any other reader from this forum was a live during the WWII.

Most people point to one and other, you did this, you did that, because of it you, and your people should die. But what did he/she do wrong?

Therefore, the West, the East and Middle East, we are all wrong. And together we do our best to start WWIII in our own cities and all over the world.

Stop blaming an entire nation because only a few behave like jurks on this planet.
Do not be angry to your neighbour because he is a Christian and stop be angry to your neighbour because he is a Muslim.

Or else we all start something again which we cannot turn back. We should complain to our Governments because of what they are doing or not doing is wrong...........................



Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

Albert
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Is it also not written in the Qu'ran, that Mohammed said that one day Muslim will kill Muslim.
They are not only killing each other;
Such as Sadam and Al-quada, but they are also killing the good relation between Muslim and Christians.

But the Christians or Western religions do the same.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

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There is a verse in the Al Quran that says: Laa kum dinnukum waliyaadiin (QS Al Kafirun) which means "your religion is for you, and my religion is for me." or in other words, the verse tells moslems to respect other religions. Not all moslems are full of hatred towards those of different religions... in fact, Islam is a religion of peace, just like all other religions in this godforsaken world. Peace Emoticon: Bye bye


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Albert
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Dear Kinanti Pinta,

I fully agree with you. Emoticon: Yes!


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

kleinsmann
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All religions have ground-rules like respect the other,create peace in the world etc etc but in my sight that's the point some people 4get.Wish I knew why....It would solve so many wars...


Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

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Just imagine that every country with huge military budgets spent only 75% on arms and used the remainder to help all the poor and starving people in this world. Maybe then there would be no hatred and ill feelings between us.
Patricia



kleinsmann
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You are right. America makes his own economy with it. 1st they bomb, then they buitl up with their own companies. Also they provide all sorts of medical help etc etc. 75% even surpsise me. I really thought it was around 50 or something. The poor and starving people are not so important for the US. As you can see in Ruanda for example or other places in Africa. So many horrible things happened but where was America?Nowhere!Of course, what for they should go?Only starving poor people there...There was nothing to get better of,so better ignore it must have been their thought. SO TOTALLY CRAZY!
Biggest problem is that lots of Americans don;t see it. They talk about how good they are and how great their leader. You know that makes me scrared. It looks so familiar with Germany 1940-1945. Most people by then didn't know they were supporting such bad thing.Yeah when it was too late and no way back people were aware of it. People always scared for the violence of the middle east, which is of course also very scary, but we never look to the western danger which is really there! Hope we all see it so there won't become a disaster.

Assalamu Alaikum, peace for us all,

Martijn


Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

Desi Clark
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The real problem is.... which media do you want to follow? Which newspaper do you want to read? which radio do you want to hear? Do you think Arab TV will show a video of beheading of Mr. Nick Berg? Has anyone (contry) had ever apologized about the 9/11 attacks?

Nooo.... one of the TV Station in somewhere Middle East would not video the torture and beheaded of Mr. Nick Berg because they knew it was EVIL..OUTRAGEOUS!!! They dont want people to know how Evil they are....

Well back to Indonesia subject..shall we?




Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.


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