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AnisJ
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I think this topic still counts .......


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

dirgantara
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I hope that an Asian investor is willing to invest and establish a news channel.
A channel which will report with an Asian perspective.
News is very important and we need some Asian media in European newsoutlets. To show the Asian (not the middle eastern) perspective.

If I see Step Vaessen on Dutch television I get irritated. They should replace her by someone with a more positive attitude towards development in Indonesia.




For a technocratic Indonesia with foreign investors but not foreign owned Indonesian companies

AnisJ
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Oké you h'd given your opnion about Step, how about the topic .......... silahkan.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

dirgantara
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Well a lot of "western" people base their thinking on media services from CNN, NBC, BBC and so on.
But I do believe that they tend to report on a negative way regarding Asia/ Africa and South America.

If we for example take into account the CNN report of the Non Aligned Meeting held in Cuba. CNN was only talking about the fact that Castro was absent and that the leaders of North Korea, Iran and Venezuela were getting their backs rubbed. This is non essential information. CNN was not reporting about key subjects. So by doing this the importance of this massive political movement was downgraded.

But CNN forgot to mention that the Non Aligned Movement :
-is the second largest organisation after the UN.
-includes all developing nations (roughly 85% of the world population)
-was created to withstand pressure from both communism and capitalism
-condemned the military force used by Israel

As long as western media continue with selective reporting selectivity of Western thinking will not seize to exist.



For a technocratic Indonesia with foreign investors but not foreign owned Indonesian companies

dirgantara
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Western thinking is created by Western media. Or simply open your college history books and you will see the selectivity used to shape history into a western perspective.

I remembered when a delegation visited the Scheepvaart Museum in Amsterdam. A world renowned museum depicting the role of ships during the the Golden Century of the Dutch East Indies Company. Only one small section barely larger than the size of a telephone booth was telling the history of slaves during the Golden Ages. This while these centuries of massive economic growth were not able to be realized without slaves.

People of the delegation were so shocked by this that they wrote a letter to a Dutch government agency.


For a technocratic Indonesia with foreign investors but not foreign owned Indonesian companies

sascha
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so what?! its like what they say about democracy.. same goes for the media.. its maybe not perfect but its the best we have..
just look at what islamic media made out of the pope speech.. n people are to stupid to think on their own or read on their own.. just blindly follow the leader.. even a moderate muslim friend of mine in malaysia, just read what's in the news.. not knowing the full speech nor the meaning..
www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1873277,00.html
now there are even idiots out there burning german flags n pope pictures.. that makes people afraid and alienates muslims..
but u cant blame us if we dont really want to know the other side of the story if we see such stupid behavior.. those radicals use the media too they want to send us a message n do it much more vocal then moderate muslim.. so sorry but we cant here the others..



JohanN
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Dirgantara, what were the key subjects than?????



Begin de details te vergeten

searching
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Sascha, not only alienate. But I think all non musulman, Hindus, Budhists, Christians, Atheists, have started to realize that. You can see the traffic at www.faithfreedom.org.
But I agree with Anis that some of the problems come from the western policy as well, but not all.
If you read Andre Servier's book (a Frenchman) on Psychology of Musulmans, a thorough examination of the history of musulmans and the cause of such behavious, you will see that the history tells us exactly of the musulmans, and what happens now can be predicted.
I got the PDF format for those interested. Just email me.
Western media is SO AFRAID of musulmans now, that they seem to side with the musulmans.



Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

dirgantara
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Sascha sensitive issues like the the Pope's speech are difficult to judge because of the fact that it's about people's religion. Uneducated and extremists tend to overreact and aside from that there is a possibility that participants are paid by certain political/religious groups for their own agenda.
In the case of Indonesia both Polri and Badan Intelijen Negara should do more to act against extremist groups. The security forces should infiltrate, intimidate and use more violence against these groups to prevent things like flags burning and public disorder from happening.

When I made my statement I was talking about business and industrial news.

Please take a look at these examples:

-In April 2005 the predecessor of the Non Aligned Movement, The Asia Africa Conference held it's meeting in the Indonesian city of Bandung to celebrate the organisations 50 year anniversary. Indonesia was not mentioned by the NOS journaal as the founding member. While the others Yugoslavia, India, Ghana and Egypt were mentioned.

-In the year 2000 about Indonesia's corruption....
In a report by Nova Step Vaessen was talking about the fact that Indonesia was able to pay it's civil servants. This is not through. Indonesia received aid from the IMF to finance the reforms wanted by the IMF. Not to pay it's civil servants.

-When Step Vaessen reported about the Tsunami in 2004...
She talked about the fact that TNI had no helicopters. But mrs. Vaessen did not mention that TNI was not able to respond due to the US weapons embargo against.

-Take a look at the World Fact Book. Indonesia's aviation-, automotive-, shipping- and steel industries are not mentioned.


No hard feelings... but facts are needed. Not disinformation or misinformation.

People (western) base their opinion on for example important guides like the CIA's World Fact Book. And if information is missing or by purpose removed or altered they get a wrong impression.
With the asian century asian media is needed. Both in printing media and televised media.


JohanN for more information regarding NAM please visit the following sites:

-www. e-nam.org.my
-www.nam.gov.za




For a technocratic Indonesia with foreign investors but not foreign owned Indonesian companies

searching
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Sascha sensitive issues like the the Pope's speech are difficult to judge because of the fact that it's about people's religion.

You you think people must close their mouths tight and hide the truth just because it will offend some extremists? Isn't it a type of selectivity?


Uneducated and extremists tend to overreact and aside from that there is a possibility that participants are paid by certain political/religious groups for their own agenda.


After the execution of Tibo and friends, I come to realize that the extremists ARE supported by Indonesian government.

In the case of Indonesia both Polri and Badan Intelijen Negara should do more to act against extremist groups. The security forces should infiltrate, intimidate and use more violence against these groups to prevent things like flags burning and public disorder from happening.

There's no such thing in Indonesia. The government submits to the demand of the extremists. Hey, the minority in Indonesia doesnt count. They will not make you the winner in any election.

-In April 2005 the predecessor of the Non Aligned Movement, The Asia Africa Conference held it's meeting in the Indonesian city of Bandung to celebrate the organisations 50 year anniversary. Indonesia was not mentioned by the NOS journaal as the founding member. While the others Yugoslavia, India, Ghana and Egypt were mentioned.


Indonesia always takes side, to musulman's side. That's why, Indonesia doesn't even want to have diplomatic relationship with Israel.


-In the year 2000 about Indonesia's corruption....
In a report by Nova Step Vaessen was talking about the fact that Indonesia was able to pay it's civil servants. This is not through. Indonesia received aid from the IMF to finance the reforms wanted by the IMF. Not to pay it's civil servants.


Well, Indonesia is one of the most corrupt country in the world.

If you want the truth, you must compare also all the history written by other country concerning Indonesia.

One of the fact ommited by Indonesian history is the fact that Islam also was spread by sword in Indonesia.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

AnisJ
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I had heard a new system is applied nowadays, to filter 'critical' options istead of the regular ones on the 'net' ........ even Yerun will not help.


Lieber Sacha (yth.) sie enttausschen mich (??? an, auf, hinter, ....) Emoticon: Blush Emoticon: Blush you know there are different opinions: critical, regular, standard, extreme, etc .... 'how come your 'point of view' is more regular, almost standard in this case, mein Freund .......'



'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

putri
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I am an Indonesian, living in NL, watching interestingly to politics in NL. Above all remarks, it is quite significants that politic in NL, will stay as it is. It reflects mostly dutch way of thinking, right, left, which one brings the most interesting value of money on retirement, salary, health insurance will win. But mostly the right party will not stay long, after the economic back to good level it will goes back to left, or just stay in the middle, half right & left. And everybody will back to their old good life, and still complaining, but, they can accept it.
Gosh, this land is so stable, just like the roads, clean , clear and no wholes. Problems, issues, but it will be OK. Unfortunately we cannot compare this with INA situation. Unfortunately it is not a good comparison to do so. But surely you will appreciate more when you are away. How quiet and easy life it is, actually. Welfare, that is the keyword. Emoticon: Yes!



putri
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Yerun, wrong post.. I was thinking about NL - politisc issue-- guys, forget about what wrote !! Emoticon: Very funny



AnisJ
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On 18-09-2006 20:39 sascha wrote:
so what?! its like what they say about democracy.. same goes for the media.. its maybe not perfect but its the best we have..
just look at what islamic media made out of the pope speech.. n people are to stupid to think on their own or read on their own.. just blindly follow the leader.. even a moderate muslim friend of mine in malaysia, just read whats in the news.. not knowing the full speech nor the meaning..
www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1873277,00.html
now there are even idiots out there burning german flags n pope pictures.. that makes people afraid and alienates muslims..
but u cant blame us if we dont really want to know the other side of the story if we see such stupid behavior.. those radicals use the media too they want to send us a message n do it much more vocal then moderate muslim.. so sorry but we cant here the others..

Although I myself, being a protestant, I feel almost sure most Muslimim 2 envy Christianity for 'having a central figure in religion, like the pope' , I mean, you are able, as a Christian, to be against him or with him; of course as a protestant I detest the 'Vatican claim' of 'representing God on earth', it confuses me also 'cause I thought the Cathologists see him as an successor of the 'disciple Paul', who was executed in Rome ..... or am I 'mixmaxing' things.
  • Anyway the pope draws a 'clear line' ...... to be with him, or not ......


  • 'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    sascha
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    actually seeing german flags burn made me kinda proud Emoticon: Stupid
    im agnostic so i dont understand any of this religious conflict, it was simply not fair how muslims reacted to the popes speach..
    besides that i detest orthodox and radicals on both sides.. whoever takes a fairy tale written hundred years ago literally must really be naiv..
    creationist on the one side.. sharia freaks on the other.. both are soooo alien to me..




    AnisJ
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    On 04-10-2006 22:42 sascha wrote:
    actually seeing german flags burn made me kinda proud Emoticon: Stupid
    im agnostic so i dont understand any of this religious conflict, it was simply not fair how muslims reacted to the popes speach..
    besides that i detest orthodox and radicals on both sides.. whoever takes a fairy tale written hundred years ago literally must really be naiv..
    creationist on the one side.. sharia freaks on the other.. both are soooo alien to me..

    Sascha yth.,

    Mein Freund, is this what you are trying to describe 'das neues Deutsches Bewustsein', not that I'm against it !!!
    On the contrary, I would say ....... finally !!!
    I always find the German 'minority-feelings' not natural ........ so, silahkan maju !!


    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    AnisJ
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    'Sach' mein Freund yth.,

    Terimak k. for posting the info of the pope ....... 'wass findest du von Angela M.; silahkan berita' ....... Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye


    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    balibreeze
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    On 10-07-2006 14:38 Albert wrote:

    ...

    Whats wrong with the truth. I do buisiness in this country. But do you really think that the suppliers are willing to learn about the meaning customer is King?
    If a motor cycle make an accident do you really think he will drive for the rest of his live more carefully?
    All the woman who voted for Mega? How much procent will vote for her again? And how much did she do for the woman in here country? She only need to come with false promishes and everybody vote again on her.
    Or people who promish to send positive spirits, who vote for them. And they will make them ritch.
    Goverment officials are payed to track illegal logging. but those guys pay extra. so the goverment needs to hire extra staff to trace goverment employees who are corupt.
    Traffic, is so dangerous that many people are being killed every year. Is there any imporvement?
    Voting time. anybody has in his ellection program something about the traffic, enviroment, price of nasi, etc. No. Only about lower the prices, buty after ellections. The voters are fooled.
    I go to the leader of Kamping to etent my working Visa. I know a fixed price for all. (from a friend) But with that I say yes Pa because I can trust you. and you can handle this very good I am willing to let you do this every year. If you are willing to do this for my price. And I did not do it the first time, because I lost your telephone number, bla bla bla.
    I ask a freight forwarder who has experience with Impoirt, to come to my factory and talk about it. Because I wish to import. They arrive, 3 people with university degree. Did they prepaire anything, could they answer 1 of my questions? No, I needed to wait for 2 weeks and a lot of pushing before i received the answer. With a stupid excuse. I asked them please give me shipping prices every month by e-mail? yes. After 4 times asking, i gave up. Told them not going to use them any more. Because many mistakes they keep on making. they do not wish to learn.

    So what Colonial thinking? Crap it is. I talk out of experience, not Colonial or superier idea! I makes no difference about the background or Diplomas. I even have a secretarian with a degree in Economy. But in reality somebody from the west with High school or secondary could do a even better job for me.
    .
    I have a female worker (manusje van alles), she arranges all in my factory. has no Diploma. Not even finished high school. But even she tells to my wife from time to time, how stupid the University secretarian is. Pure laziness, I DONT KNOW. Soon he will be out of a job.

    Really the things I exerperience in this country? I am not discriminating!!


    yeah right.. right you're the one who has the most brain in the world... Even Bill gates stays low profile... Emoticon: Shut up!


    sing ken ken bli....

    AnisJ
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    On 25-11-2006 19:43 balibreeze wrote: ...................................................................................................
    ............................................................ Even Bill Gates stays low profile... Emoticon: Shut up!

    ..... "is this true, or does the media not select what they want, it probably "looks like" Bill Gates is 'low-profile' ..... does the media also want to sell us an 'image of him', not what he really is like ...... I mean most people like to hear/read about 'Bill Gates the milliardair' but are they interested that he'd given away 800 million U$, what I've learned, for the aids-program in Africa ....
    I had heard that some rich American people in America give 1 % of their income away for 'well-fare' ...... 'of course 1 % of a milliard is less then 1 % of 1 000 U$' one can say, for those persons concerned ............................."

    Is 'news' mostly connected with what 'Western Media' wants us to 'believe' ........



    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    searching
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    ..... "is this true, or does the media not select what they want, it probably "looks like" Bill Gates is 'low-profile' ..... does the media also want to sell us an 'image of him', not what he really is like ...... I mean most people like to hear/read about 'Bill Gates the milliardair' but are they interested that he'd given away 800 million U$, what I've learned, for the aids-program in Africa ....
    I had heard that some rich American people in America give 1 % of their income away for 'well-fare' ...... 'of course 1 % of a milliard is less then 1 % of 1 000 U$' one can say, for those persons concerned ............................."


    We even tend to select what we want to believe, Anis. So there's nuthing new under the sun, huh?


    Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

    AnisJ
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    On 05-12-2006 08:59 searching wrote: ................
    We even tend to select what we want to believe, Anis. So theres nuthing new under the sun, huh?



    " ....... is it, or are we first submitted to a preselection of the news ..... for instance we hear/reed about Marrocans steal and that some of them are terrorists, but do we read also that Marrocan ingeneers have contributed to the Paris undergound ......."

    "Is not most of the news filtered and therefore it pollutes our minds, to being committed by being prejusted ........"


    'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

    searching
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    "Is not most of the news filtered and therefore it pollutes our minds, to being committed by being prejusted ........"


    I agree with that. Shall we see the media selectivity in this case?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WO(...)nce.riots/index.html

    The unrest, triggered last week by the deaths of two teenagers, spread Tuesday night to at least nine towns in the suburbs north and northeast of Paris as police clashed with angry youths and dozens of vehicles were set on fire.

    One of the worst-hit suburbs was Aulnay-sous-Bois, where 15 cars were torched and police in riot gear fired tear gas and rubber bullets at gangs of angry youths who threw stones at a firehouse and lobbed Molotov cocktails at a town hall annex, AP reported.


    This is about the paris riot. As we know, it was done by muslim youths. And may be you never hear (thanks to media selectivity - but some French friends at FFI reported that), but around a month ago, there erupted a new 'small' riot and now there are a lot of French Police being targetted by citizen, while the politically correct government warned the police against using real bullet to fight the attack.
    Poor policement.

    Please read in the news. They never mention:
    1) The ethnic/origin of the rioters.
    2) The religion of the rioters.

    But frenchmen see and KNOW the reality, especially those who experienced that. I understand the news was filtered because the government afraid there will be a backlash from the society to the moslims/minority. The use of phrases such as "angry youths" is an attempt to select and "lie" to the society. Angry youth is VERY general. It could be christian youths, french youths, white youths, everyone.


    Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

    saidja
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    Hi Anastasia, Although I agreed with ya very much, Now I am on this topic too...Ha ha. Can ya see my brains ?



    Yogya-Bali
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    The Jakarta Post today:

    ........Meanwhile, Wiryono Sastrohandoyo, a veteran Indonesian diplomat who is now with the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), said a stable domestic situation was key to success on the international front.

    "Indonesia has an image problem and a bad reputation.......





    Yogya-Bali
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    Selectivity of western thinking??





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