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budowono1
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banci is gay and is evil agayns all law of nature am i wright ???




Jeroen
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No, I don't think you are right about that. see my previous replies in this topic.



kleinsmann
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l love you, martin!! Feel the same way about certain topics, like S**T.


Whahaha normally I'm not so beloved.



Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...

juffy
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A large majority of Indonesians are Muslim. In the view of this religion, homosexuality is sinful. Some references suggest death penalty for convicted homosexuals. If you don’t believe me, please check:
http://www.islam101.com/sociol(...)y/homosexuality.html
http://www.islamic.org.uk/homosex.html
http://www.al-fatiha.net/pamphlet.html
http://www.geocities.com/mikailtariq/homo.htm
http://www.nathanielwandering.net/Islam.htm
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/homosexuality.html
http://www.jamaat.org/qa/homo.html
(Just click on these lines). I could add 30cm more references if need.
Please refer also to the new Indonesian law proposal, suggesting up to 7 years of imprisonment:
http://news.com.au/common/stor(...)6302%5E13762,00.html
(Just click on this line.)
But:
Modern human development theory says, that most children pass trough a homophile phase before puberty. Some “recover”. Also in Indonesia.
My opinion: Why do we care about other people’s libido? It's their affair! Live an let the others live.




Aangirfan
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The animal kingdom is mainly bisexual. Bonobo chimps are 100% bisexual. Europeans and Americans are mainly bisexual. Indonesians are mainly bisexual. Our politicians are mainly bisexual. Many monarchs are bisexual. The traditional Moslem realises that there are bisexual Moslems in Morocco, in Yemen, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan....(Only the fundamentalists cannot face the truth. And remember that fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are both funded by the CIA.)


http://www.salon.com/it/featur(...)/cov_15featurea.html

'Some homosexual animals have one-night stands and some have long marriages. Gay and lesbian geese stay together year after year. Bottlenose dolphins don't form male-female couples, but males often form lifelong pairs with other males. Some are interested only in males, but others are bisexual and happily indulge in beak-genital propulsion and more with male or female alike.

'Male black swans court and form stable pairs. With two males, they are able to defend huge territories from other swan couples, which sounds like a double-income-no-kids situation except that they often manage to wangle some eggs from somewhere -- all right, they steal them -- and become model parents, twice as successful as straight parents.







Albert
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Aangirfan,

Do not mention this to Desi, that Americans and Indonesians are mainly bisexual or else she will not like her own people, because of her religion. Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Angry Emoticon: Angry Emoticon: Angry Emoticon: Angry


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

Aangirfan
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ISLAM AND HOMOSEXUALITY

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/wor(...)key/islamottoman.htm

January 1, 2004

http://www.reuters.com/locales(...)rtainmentNews&locale =en_IN&storyID=4062723

Indonesian movie breaks sexual taboos

Associated Press, January 1, 2004
http://www.globalgayz.com/indonesia-news.html

Gay Screen Kiss Makes History in Indonesia

please don't post entire stories here!







Desi Clark
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oooooh Lordy!

Aaang.... quit browsing homo's site!

HA HA HA

Desi Clark




Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.

bagusdewe
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>Stop!
>Halt!(is this correct?)
>Berhenti dulu!
>Have a break buddy!
>Take it easy now everybody....please??????....please???
>Bagusdewe has been absent only a couple of days you BOYS & GIRLS (I said YOU BOYS & GIRLS DID I ?)started squabling for what!?

>Who started all this!?
>May I ask everybody a favour?
>Just walk out from your room/studio/garage/whatever,..(this the hardest thing to do for you people.... to get off from your computer...)
>And go to the street.....(not in the middle of the street of course!)...just don't do anything please for goodness sake!? (half an hour in busy street/metropolitan's traffic)
>Just do as I ask you!...
Just stand on the side of the road And don't do anything!
>Can anybody write in this forum what a conclusion can one draws from that roadside experience?
>Can be road/street in Atlanta....San Fansisco, Den Haag, Tokyo, Jatinegara(OTISTA IS OK!),.... NEWYORK?....OK!, even NEW DELHI!
>Tell me! what did you see??
>Can you explain to this forum of what you saw??
>no OXFORD Universit's style of comments, no Cambridge Uni, No Harvard, no Yale, no PhD, no Leyden Universiteit JUST SIMPLE ENGLISH,
>The reason?
>There are full of smart people outhere allready, and look at what is happening in the world right now,, killings, hunger/starvations, incurable deseases....

>We remember that one of us threw some qustion: should we build an International friendship network? remember???
>First I ask you to answer my challenge : standing on the roadside for 1 hour, and write in this forum: Whatever your experience from standing on the road side was.


>(I can see Desi is going to put her $5...... No Desi! not yet! just not yet.... but if you win currency betting, it is OK with me!)

>Bagusdewe
(Still doesn't know anything.... but like to chat all the same)


Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye



Aangirfan
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Two sites worth looking at:

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sc(...)/karsch_haack_f.html

http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/se(...)IV/GUS/INDONESIA.HTM

The first site refers to Ferdinand Karsch-Haack who demonstrated the occurrence of same-sex sexual activity throughout the animal kingdom, among the so-called primitive peoples, and in all non-Western cultures.

The second site refers to the long history of same-sex activity in Indonesia. There were male priestesses among the Dayak, the Buginese and the Toraja, and transvestite male-to-female dancers in Java and at the courts of Aceh and Bali there were young boys who had sex with men.





Sepp Buys
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I thought gay means happy in English. So why not all be gay??

Sepp



zainm
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Whoa hot topic! Anytime religion and politics are involved, these are always hot hot hot.

Gay = when they were kids, they somehow grew up thinking sex must be same-sex. Maybe they were sodomized when they were little by uncles, brothers, neighbors. Don't censor me Jeroen Emoticon: Smile In Indonesia, the story of a guy who abused at least 10 boys was famous. I think his name was Robot Gedek or something like that?

Kids grow up thinking having sex with opposite sex is weird, cos they grew up thinking it must be same-sex.

Banci or drag queen is not gay. I once thought banci and gay are the same. But , I was looking at a Thai lady-boy (these are called lady-boy there) story (Thailand is heaven for lady-boy or banci). Anyway, this person grew up like a girl cos her parents treated her like one: gave her doll and girls clothes. She always played with girls and had no brothers. She grew up thinking she was a girl and relationship with a man is good for her. In Junior high, she realized he was a boy. But she felt like a girl and liked boys. At age 13, she began taking drugs to suppress her testosterone level.....so no beard, no adams apple, no male features whatsoever. Anyway, she found a boyfriend, but later the boyfriend is a gay, she found out and they split. A few banci or drag queens actually get married with normal male. From there, I understand banci is not gay.

Whoa, a couple drag queens are so beautiful, they are prettier than natural girls.



zainm
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Oh yes, back to the ORIGINAL question: gay community in indonesia. In big cities like Jakarta, of course gay community thrives more than in the countryside. Cos the moral is always worse in big cities: drugs, prostitution, etc. In the countryside, if you are a gay, you will be banished.

Plus, given the surroundings, kids do not grow up thinking same-sex is OK. So they are less likely to venture into that area.....know what I mean? If you are exposed to same-sex culture and keep hearing it is good, you want to try it, right? Then you might like it and become a gay.

Oh yes, out of topic: I once watched a Jerry Seinfeld movie, where Elaine tried to "cure" a gay man, she didn't like him at first. She decided to sleep with him so he can be cured. He was cured and Elaine was bragging about it. Alas, the guy reverted back into his gay world. Elaine's comment was, "His partner owns "IT"; he has access to "IT" 24 hours a day,. He knows how to make "IT" happy, even someone else's "IT". I only have access to "IT"a few hous in a week - how can I compete with a guy?" Truly, it makes perfect sense.

Indonesia is the largest muslim country in the world (population-wise). Sounds grand, but it is a moderate Muslim country, not as strict as malaysia or pakistan or the Arab countries. I like it this way, more freedom.



Jeroen
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Gay = when they were kids, they somehow grew up thinking sex must be same-sex. Maybe they were sodomized when they were little by uncles, brothers, neighbors.


nothing to censor, because I don't like that.

I just disagree with you on this. Every little person on this earth has it's own set of brains, evolution and psyche which forms a person. That is the reason why some people are going straight and others are going gay or bi-sexual.

Surroundings are included in 'evolution' here, by the way.



Sepp Buys
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And isn't all you need is love, whether from a man or a woman????

Sepp



timmy457
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Gay on the spot, eh?

Well, I am gay and writer. My first novel is about gay and now it's in the bookstores. It's Manusia Manusia (by Bagus Utama). It's in Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language). It tells about a young man's struggling against his homosexuality, culture, and religion. What a boring book!!!!

Gay... many out there condemn gay people while saying it's haram, it againsts the God's creation. Who are you? Are you God itself? How could you say anything and bla.. bla.. about gay, god... dog... Oh my! Are you a real God so you know anything about it? Only God knows why...............

timmy



budowono1
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yeas maybe so.
but read Genesis aboud creation.
it clearly declares god created Adam & Eve think aboud it



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Genesis is like a legend....not to be taken litterally, it's a myth about where Christians think mankind comes from....as there are so many myths and legends about the origin of mankind....Homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality.....its not about a choice, its about your sexual preference and you are born with that, you cant help it.




budowono1
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Never thought aboud it that way i only thouught anoud it the christian way according to bible



timmy457
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Guys... you could not put the religion as the center of anything in this life. There's something more than in the bible to run this life. God condemns the homosxuality in the old testament, but does all the stuff in life must be based on the bible?

As a gay catholic person, I see those things as parts of life which is not simple and bible and/or old testament are only one or two guidelines to make this life better. And homosexuality? Nobody wants to be a gay. It happens naturally, either by nature or environment.

Back to the main issue about they gay community in here... well... lots of gay guys in Jakarta, Bali and Yogyakarta. You can find them easily and.. gay is a common choice for people, whether you say it's right or not, like or dislike. They exist.... (as I mentioned in my book, too....)

have a good weekend.



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if being gay comes natural, how is it a choice?
the lifestyle might be a choice....just as any lifestyle is a choice, heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.

Anyway, thought the question was if its allowed in Indonesia for gay people to publicly show affection....has that question been answered yet. or can I just assume its not, cos its considered haram?



budowono1
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cuz no one eccepts it neighter religion or nature or Law.

no law eccepts Homosexuality wether is Christian or Islam or Jew or Budhis/ hindu not evel the laws of Nature eccepts
eventhough it is eccepted by some people don't wan't to eccept cause it is agaynst human nature so the answer is no



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Dutch law accepts it.....in the Netherlands gay couples can get married legally and officially, same as straight couples...and nature accepts it too.....but there will always be human beings who dont accept it and then say its an unnatural thing....evryone is entitled to their own opinion of course, as long as you dont force that opinion on others and/or judge people by their looks or their age or their sexual preference....

In Peace Emoticon: Smile



diederick
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I never understood the following: if God is almighty and all foreseeing why then did he create homosexuality (because nothing happens withhout his intervenence or knowing)? Rembember the saying: God moves in mysterious ways. I would be very careful to condemn homosexuality, especially from a religious motivation, because, before you know it, you could also condem God.



budowono1
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true aboud that but why does the pope condem them if not Gods will ?




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