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On 06-05-2004 22:34 kleinsmann wrote:
Desi as a so called mixed-couple president I think you should know better. What if some 2 gays with mixed cultures want to join?
Thought that your organisation was more open-minded...
Regs,
TYN
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What am i supposed to say? Support Gays? I don't hate or discriminate them..and did it say anywhere that gays are not allowed to join the Indo-MC organisation?
In my opinion Homosexuality is only one symptom of fallen humanity.
Desi Clark
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Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.
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On 06-05-2004 14:18 diederick wrote:
This forum gradually gets a bit too religious for my taste, i have to say......
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Aaghh..my apology Diederick....but sometimes it is always good to get out of ordinary....
But you are right....and I respect your feeling..... so leave the gay alone correct...hahahahaha...
Respectfully yours,
Desi Clark
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Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.
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Excuse me, if gays are allowed to enter Indo-MC I take back my words on that. Hope no hard feelings whoahahahaa
Maybe my English not as good as yours but while you talked about rights gays should have, my thought was that you thought they should have different rights as hetrosexuals. For me it sounded same like for example someone doubting if black people should have same rights as white people. If I understood wrong again you have my 2nd excuse whoahaahahaa.....
Gonna sleep, it's child-bedtime...
Ow your emoticon was not choosen so bad, I know it's hard for you whoahahhaahaha
Very best regards and a well ment peace,
Martijn
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Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...
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Martijn, You are excused!....and I am glad that the chill pill you took, worked fast!!
may you have a peaceful sleep....!
Desi Clark
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Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.
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On 06-05-2004 20:03 Desi Clark wrote:
[...]
Myth#2: Homosexuals are born Gay..
Can someone be born a homosexual?
The biggest possible reason is this: If the world was convinced that some people are indeed born gay, then some would feel there is a need to protect homosexuals by the government as a designated minority class status, such as African- or Native-Americans.
FACT: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIM THAT A PERSON CAN BE BORN HOMOSEXUAL.
Groetjes...
Desi Clark
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In Holland we have anti-discriminating laws, so it's not allowed to discriminate on race, religion or anything else. Among that is also sexual preference.
There is no evidence that you are born gay or not, but as Albert stated, the opposite neither, right?
Lucky for me there is no God for me. He forces people to discriminate, things I don't buy for sure. There is probably a book, an institution (churches of various kinds) that tells you so, because I don't buy it when telling that He has meant to discriminate people.
Ooh.. it's a sign of weakness to me that someone hides behind a God. Skip that talk and give evidence, for now it's crawling towards discrimination.
Thank U. 
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question
What do you see better, two gay men 'playing' with eachother or two women 'playing' with eachother. 
Off to work now... and don't think I don't see anything then 
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Guys normally ignore gays as good freinds while women do accept them as good freinds,,,
Comments please ....
I would never make a gay freind,,,its hard to accept a fact that if he finds me handsome..he may look for my assets ....hahahaha
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www Jakarta through the Eyes of an Expat
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Guys normally ignore gays as good freinds while women do accept them as good freinds,,,
Comments please ....
I would never make a gay freind,,,its hard to accept a fact that if he finds me handsome..he may look for my assets ....hahahaha
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www Jakarta through the Eyes of an Expat
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Ali, you would never make a gay friend? But maybe you don't know before....
What if one of your best friends seems to be gay?
You stop the friendship relation?
Peace and respect for you all,
Mas Hilmar.
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- Let us live simply so that others may simply live -
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Peace and respect for all as well.....
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www Jakarta through the Eyes of an Expat
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Dear Mr. Kleinsman,
Although I agree with you, but there is one importent point you are missing.
Desi is I think, raised and born in the US of A. You are born in Holland I think.
The opinion of these two countries concerning gay and porno are 180 degrees different.
So please try not to forget the differences in culture and thinking of the people in this forum. After all it is an international forum.
Kind regards,
Albert
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wuiiiih....it is getting hot in here....Atlanta is warm and nice...!
My note:
I don't believe if you dont support gays, you are racist!
I don't believe if you dont support gays, you are bad person!
I don't believe if you dont support gays, you discriminate minority and do not accept the differences.
I don't believe if you dont support gays, you can not be friends with them.
What I do believe, my opinion about homos or gays is based upon my belief, according to what the bible says..not what country I live in.
If you dont believe in GOD..it is your personal choice...I have no rights to judge you as a sign of weakness because of your personal choice...
Whether you support gays or not..doesn't really matter to me. The truth of matter is I have my own opinion and you have yours...let's leave it that way!
Desi Clark
Firm believer! Hahahahahaha
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Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.
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whahahaha seems you want to have the last word.
Anyway I only wanna say this: The way you write your postings sounds different then only not supporting. What you mean with not supporting?If I had to make a list of people I don;t support whahaha
Your way of posting sound different then only "not supporting. Your opinion is stronger then that Desi.
Anyway I think it's done too. Only one question really go true my mind all the time. What should you do if you child says: Mama I'm gay when he/she is 16 years old....Just curious!!!
Greets there in the hot US!
Martijn
Ps.. Received it!
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Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...
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On 07-05-2004 21:04 kleinsmann wrote:
. Only one question really go true my mind all the time. What should you do if you child says: Mama Im gay when he/she is 16 years old....Just curious!!!
Greets there in the hot US!
Martijn
Ps.. Received it!
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Martijn,
To kill your curiousity....my reply would be:
"My child..I did not raise a gay in this house....it is my failure as a parent if you become a gay!"
ok..next question please...... 
Desi Clark
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Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.
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Then I would say it's not a failure of the parent of course, but merely a genetic difference. (??)
Yerun
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Direct study of genes: Dean Hamer, and his colleagues at the National Cancer Institute collected family data from the families of 114 gay men. 15 They found out which, if any, of their siblings, parents, cousins, uncles etc. were also gay. They quickly determined that homosexuality runs in families. By itself, these results show nothing. They might indicate that homosexuality is genetically caused, or might show that it is caused by upbringing, by some hormonal levels in the womb or some other environmental factor that appears in some family lines more than other. Further studies showed that "There were increased rates of gay people among family members genetically related to each other even when raised apart in different households." This reinforced the possibility that genetic factors might cause people to become gay. However, these observations were not conclusive; they were merely suggestive. What proved the genetic nature of "gayness" was a pedigree test. This type of study examines the sexual orientation of the ancestors of many gay adults - both on their father's and mother's side. Some possible results from a pedigree study on Hamer's sample of gay adults would be: An approximately equal number of gays might be found on the mothers' side of the family, when compared to the fathers' side. Some gays may have many gay ancestors on their mother's side, whereas other gays may see the same effect on their father's side. But when all the results were lumped together, if the total numbers would be about equal, then the results could point to: "Gayness" being caused by environmental factors, or "Gayness" being caused by some gene on a chromosome other than the X chromosome. A much larger number of gays might be found on the mother's side of the family. This would show conclusively that not only was the gene passed genetically, but that it is located somewhere on the X chromosome - since men always get their X chromosome only from their mother. This is called the "maternal effect." It is well known in genetics. The researchers found that the second result was observed. A gay male from the population that Hamer studied would notice that more of his mother's brothers will be gay than his father's brothers; so too with the various classes of maternal cousins when compared to his paternal cousins. Thus, much male homosexuality is caused by a gene on the X chromosome. Hamer went on to find the approximate location on the chromosome where the gay-causing gene was located. He found that many of his subjects had an identical sequence on the Xq28 region of their X chromosome. This shows the approximate location of the "gay gene." Eventually, it might be found that a group of interacting genes (including one in this region) might determine sexual orientation in males. The statistical "p" value is a measure of the significance of a test: the probability that it could have happened by chance. P values less than 0.01 (1%) are considered very significant. The Hamer study had a P factor of 0.00001, and so is considered extremely reliable.
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Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...
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We share a common phenomenon. We are ALWAYS part of a minority. One can be a handyman or a scholar, an elderly or a youth, a negroid or white, blind in one eye, there are several people with a red cheek (or two), one can be grey, red-haired, blond, curly, homosexual, liberal, bright, psychiatric, my political ideas might also be different from other people, tolerant, or I might even miss one ear. It makes me unique. Good thing to know that in spite of all these things, we are STILL equal!
Being intolerant couldn't possibly be something that religion approves of, even if religion sometimes is very restrictive. But those are interpretations, and interpretations are almost always imperfect.
The only reason why I could condemn people is because someone commits a crime. I'm afraid condemning because of being different is almost like a crime. Someone above here already stated that it is close to racism (not in the same words). I fully agree! Racism to my idea is not limited to races any more. There might me a misunderstanding here.
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We share a common phenomenon. We are ALWAYS part of a minority. One can be a handyman or a scholar, an elderly or a youth, a negroid or white, blind in one eye, there are several people with a red cheek (or two), one can be grey, red-haired, blond, curly, homosexual, liberal, bright, psychiatric, my political ideas might also be different from other people, tolerant, or I might even miss one ear. It makes me unique. Good thing to know that in spite of all these things, we are STILL equal!
Being intolerant couldn't possibly be something that religion approves of, even if religion sometimes is very restrictive. But those are interpretations, and interpretations are almost always imperfect.
The only reason why I could condemn people is because someone commits a crime. I'm afraid condemning because of being different is almost like a crime. Someone above here already stated that it is close to racism (not in the same words). I fully agree! Racism to my idea is not limited to races any more. There might me a misunderstanding here.
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On 07-05-2004 11:49 aliakbar wrote:
Guys normally ignore gays as good freinds while women do accept them as good freinds,,,
Comments please ....
I would never make a gay freind,,,its hard to accept a fact that if he finds me handsome..he may look for my assets ....hahahaha
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Mr. Aliakbar
Please turn back one page, and you will find out that I already explained it.
About Gay man;
When I was still working for a BOSS, I had to work everyday with a Gay guy. To tell you the truth, I liked the guy. I am 10.000% not Gay. (If I see two guys kissing, I rather look to the other side) He was a nice guy, polite, never touched me, never dirty talks, etc.
I like him more then many of the straight guys I worked with.
My dear Desi, I am also raised Christian (and part Buddhism) went to a Christian school, etc.
My foundation is Christian.
Take a look at all the Christians all over the world and you will see there is much difference between them. Culture has a lot of influence on religion. I have been in Christian areas in Indonesia but the people behaved the same like every Muslim in the country. Good example today is Ambon.
Do we all really understand the Bible or Qu’ran?
Therefore my opinion, culture has a lot of influence in religion in every country. It has a lot of influence in explanation of what is written in the holy scriptures.
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janss557 you make my day. You know I'm a talker.Talk to much sometimes...I have my opinion and I tell others about that.
But when it comes on points to do with racism,religion etc I feel like shit because all arguments are already protected.People know exactly what to answer. I'm sorry to say this but brainless people are so hard to have discussion with....
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Just because you're paranoid don't mean there're not after you...
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l love you, martin!! Feel the same way about certain topics, like S**T. 
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Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier
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On 08-05-2004 23:05 kinanti pinta wrote:
l love you, martin!! Feel the same way about certain topics, like S**T.
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You know the remedy for this kind of topics?
- Don't read them
- Don't reply in them
Let other people have their fun, everyone is different.
Yerun 
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Buh ban Banci activity.
ban all banci 4 good
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On 09-05-2004 15:01 budowono1 wrote:
Buh ban Banci activity.
ban all banci 4 good
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I think your banci is *slightly* different than being gay.
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