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Jesses
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This perception is not restricted to men, Anis. Recently, in Yogya, I had a discussion with a girl about the prostitution in her neighbourhood. I asked her about the background of these girls. She than gave a general description of what prostitutes are like, and the next moment she applied this description to a friend of hers: "Yeah, they're like ***, she smokes too". She concluded by using a Javanese term which put both her friend and the prostitutes in one category Emoticon: Red face



Jesses
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O, i'm really sorry...

I already wondered why my reply had not been submitted, but this is page 2 already
MODERATOR BREAK

I removed them already for you .. hehe..

Placed by Jeroen @ 04-05-2006 16:04




AnisJ
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Login again and use the [edit] block at the date of your posting ......

I only talk about 'smoking cigarettes', not other smoking .... , but like they say 'where there is smoke there is fire' .......


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

Jeroen
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On 04-05-2006 09:49 londoh wrote:
Is this an opinion ? Or just remarks from someone who just woke up and did not drink his cafe yet Emoticon: Clown

Opinion of course, that's what a forum is used for. And yes, I had my coffee by then.

Ooh well, I'm sorry to see that some people use all kinds of laws to abuse them right away. Again, such abuse has nothing to do with islam, is't merely an excuse for something different, they don't like to obey (basic) laws in the first place and they want to push 'other people' into their way of life as well. Where did I hear those things before?



stijn
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THE POWER OF MAKE UP
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Bonus : -
Jumlah Halaman : 192 hal
Stok : 4
Harga : Rp 125.000,00

http://www.kompas.com/tbgramed(...)detail.cfm?bid=40076



Agung
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On 04-05-2006 12:54 Jesses wrote:
We Muslim man cannot control our lust therefore the woman should cover themselve. We cannot control the dick (penis).
This corresponds very well to my experience when I was in Egypt. Nearly, all men that I talked with came within 5 minutes to the subject " woman " The question that always came was: " "what is it like to be with an European woman in bed...." It was really amazing how many times this question came up. I've never experienced something like that in non-muslim countries.

(By the way, I've also been to Turkey once, but overthere they also didn't ask this question, so it does not apply to all muslim countries.)



AnisJ
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On 05-05-2006 12:47 Agung wrote:

...
This corresponds very well to my experience when I was in Egypt. Nearly, all men that I talked with came within 5 minutes to the subject " woman " The question that always came was: " "what is it like to be with an European woman in bed...." It was really amazing how many times this question came up. Ive never experienced something like that in non-muslim countries.

(By the way, Ive also been to Turkey once, but overthere they also didnt ask this question, so it does not apply to all muslim countries.)


Mas, ...... if you are interested on this subject read the book of Frantz Fanon; it is translated from the French language, it was 'popular literature' of the Black Panters in America in the late '60-'70's the title is in Dutch: "Zwarte huid, blanke maskers'.
In this book he described the psychology of colonilized people towards their former colonial rulers ...... for instance as an example why is there an expression (in Dutch only ?) 'pure innocensense white as a lily' {why white ?}.
Frantz Fanon has worked as a psychologist for the freedom fighters of Algeria, in their fight for independence.
"Why is white always linked to intelligence/civilisation/superiosm of race .... etc."
Also on:

newsfromrussia.com/culture/2005/09/29/63994.html


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

Jesses
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This morning in the Jakarta Post...

Woman takes Tangerang mayor to court over prostitution bylaw

Tangerang - Lilies Lindawati is keeping to a pledge to settle the score with those who publicly humiliated her by branding her a prostitute.

The 34-year-old pregnant wife of an elementary school teacher, who was arrested on the street by public order officers enforcing a prostitution bylaw, has filed suit against Tangerang Mayor Wahidin Halim at Tangerang District Court. (JP, 9-5-06).

This is the same Lilies Lindawati this topic started with.

(She's demanding Rp 500 million (about US$53,000) compensation from the mayor for material and other losses. As a primary school teacher, her husband's monthly income is probably only 0,3 - 0,4% of this amount Emoticon: Yes! )



Jantje
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On 09-05-2006 09:02 Jesses wrote:
This morning in the Jakarta Post...

Woman takes Tangerang mayor to court over prostitution bylaw

Hi Jesses,

Don't know if she 'll stand a chance but she has the guts. I hope she succeeds. Good publicity and I'm curious for the outcome. Emoticon: Yes!



belgianguy
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yeah thumbs up for her
she was wrongfully arrested... spend 3 days in jail... a fake trial without access to a lawyer... shows how the indonesian legal system works (for those without money and connections anyways)




Jesses
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On 09-05-2006 10:24 Jantje wrote:

...

Im curious for the outcome. Emoticon: Yes!


Yes, me too. Whatever the outcome will be, it'll give rise to a lot of mayhem, I guess. If the judge puts her in the right, it will motivate other people to fight their conviction, too. Moreover, the judge will publicly throw doubt upon the bylaws and the means of their enforcement.
It the judge does not put her in her right... yeah, I don't know. It could give rise to a lot of tension among common people, I think.



belgianguy
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whether she wins or loses the case...at least there is the publicity and the attention on that bylaw...it will (hopefully) make other regions think twice before going down that same path
it's just that the husband (who is an elementary school teacher) will have to watch out for his job, not now during all the publicity but later after the dust settles, it will be for some unrelated trivial matter but the bureaucracy tends to take revenge some way or another



Agung
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Attention and publicity will help Indonesian people to be forced to think about the bylaw issue.

I think this is the only way to stop the propagation of these evil laws.



Jantje
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If she only had a website / blog. to draw attention and support her case worldwide and highlight s this rediculous, dangerous development. Emoticon: Yeah right!



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jantje, your avatar is still braless... Emoticon: Laugh out loud


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Jantje
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Hi Pinanta

I wish you would take this seriously!
Sheís a sofisticated emancipated western woman. Being chased by a crowd of furious, hyper horny religion freaks in an anachromatic setting. Donít worry, by the time she reaches Tangeran she will be raped, ripped and rattled. Emoticon: Clown



Agung
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On 10-05-2006 04:23 Jantje wroteBR] Being chased by a crowd of furious, hyper horny religion freaks in an anachromatic setting.
You hit the nail on the top, Jantje. That's the root of the problem. These religious fanatics are so sexually frustrated that they'll see "sex" in anything. Since they do not allow themselves to fulfil their normal human sexual needs they become more and more hungry with sex and will see sex in anything.

For us, normal western men, a woman in e.g. t-shirt and skirt, does not directly remind us of sex. We can see her hair, arms and legs, but it usually does not make us horny.

The religious fanatics will interpret anything as a sign that a woman want sex, because their hunger is unsatisfied. So, at first, seeing her hair will be a sign that she wants sex. So, she has to wear a scarf. Then her arms and legs become a problem, so she has to wear fully protective cloths. In the end her face becomes a problem. So, she has to hide her face. In the last stage, only seeing her eyes makes men horny. So, she has to cover her eyes and it is considered best for her to stay at home behind a thick door.

The reason why men get horny are not the cloths or looks of a woman, but the manís interpretation of the situation. When man think that using lipstick is not appropriate for a woman, then that says quite a lot about that man and very little about the woman.




londoh
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And you Mr Agung missed the nail by a few yards with this piece of racism full of ďUs & ThemĒ. You are talking as someone who feels far superior, a nice piece of old-fashioned colonial thinking, not based on anything than your big thumb. Just trying to score by being anti-muslim. I told people on this forum already so many times: try to say these things in front of Indonesian people. You wonít be able to walk, neither talk anymore, they finish you right on the spot.

Imagine I am an Indonesian citizen, read Dutch newspapers like you do and come to al kind of ďconclusionsĒ like you have. This can happen.

Orang Belanda jelek sekali (I will continue in English, I wonít make you malu.)

Those Dutchies are really crazy with sex, they pick up prostitutes from the street, they prefer African illegals, bring them to barns far away in the polder. They rape them and force them to have sex with dogs and horses, put all on VDO then make DVDís of the VDO export and sell those in Indonesia. After selling these they start to complain about our anti porno and pornoaksi law. Isnít it crazy ?

I think it is quite crazy that on a forum for Indonesia lovers insults like the sort that Agung puts down are accepted. The reason might be that the Mod here loves to be anti-muslim himself. People should realize that the group Agung is talking about isn't bigger than 10 - 20.000 people, what is that on a population of 240 mio? By branding these few one isults a whole nation. Mau munta aku




pretbek
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Agung wrote: These religious fanatics are so sexually frustrated that they'll see "sex" in anything... ...For us, normal western men, a woman in e.g. t-shirt and skirt, does not directly remind us of sex. We can see her hair, arms and legs, but it usually does not make us horny.


I think it's soo nice not to see how used we got to seeing sex everywhere. Once, actually more times, I couldn't watch television (the cable nets!) for a longer time (broken, troubles with provider). When I got the cable nets back I switched on the television, all I saw was brests & booties on our soo beloved telly. Perhaps I'm a pervert (anyone like to reply on this one?) but I'm still quite convinced that we got used too a lot of daily sex-oriŽnted views. I don't think us, 'normal western men,' see so many things not in relation to sex. (Ever heard guys talk on a terras?) When you see ladies topless on tv everyday, a lady in skirt & shirt will not make you horny anymore (is that a good thing?)
Still, though I (of course) like sex a lot, I also don't think our views on the sex topic are too healthy.
Of course I also don't think my future wife (?) should walk in a skiÔng suit to prevent me from getting horny.



kiwimave
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Just for people who don't believe Arab's are the biggest perverts of this world follow this link (site of Google Trends: investigates worldwide internet behaviour)

http://www.google.com/trends?q(...)b=2&date=all&geo=all

It means Arabic speaking people are number one looking for "gay sex" on the internet!!

So everyone who thinks Arab people are so nice and friendly: we know better now!




Gracias. Sama sama

pretbek
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So people looking for gay sex are not nice & friendly? Yeah, I'm sure they're mean devils with big spots on their noses who like killing also!



Jesses
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Hi Kimiwave,

The statistics do not really surprise me, but I don't think Arabs are greater perverts than you and me. As you know, homosexuality is not really accepted in Arab countries. How do Arab gays have to look for peers, then? Or find out that they are not as strange and "dirty" as their environment think they are? Yes, through the internet.




Erik_
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So sorry Jeroen....I didnīt notice the topic was in English Emoticon: Blush

I signaled in my post that there was a documentary on dutch radio this morning about the anti-pornography law also featuring an interview with suspected prostitute Lillies. The link leads to the page with an audio fragment of the radio show (in dutch). Still working on the translation from that one though!

MODERATOR BREAK

Please keep this topic in English, and translate your message into English if you don't mind.

Placed by Jeroen @ 24-05-2006 13:02





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