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AbahFairus
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Sorry,

Figh / fikih / fiqih comes from the root F-Q-H.




AbahFairus
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Example of Semitic languages : Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Akhadian, etc.


sorry Fikih / Fiqih / fiqh comes from the root F-Q-H



AnisJ
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On 08-07-2006 12:06 AbahFairus wrote:
Example of Semitic languages : Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Akhadian, etc.
sorry Fikih / Fiqih / fiqh comes from the root F-Q-H


Mas 'Fairus' yth.,

'Jangan putar 2 seperti balanda ...... what do you think personally about this very issue: Islamatic law or not ....... what about 'Panca Sila' .....


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AbahFairus
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Dear Anis,

Sorry, I missed your post.

Pancasila has shown a great conformity with some of Islamic principles.





sidia
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[quote] On 08-07-2006 12:29 AnisJ wrote:

...


Mas Fairus yth.,

Jangan putar 2 seperti balanda
--------
Iya , nanti pusing Emoticon: Clown
(tujuh keliling)


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

AbahFairus
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[quote] On 08-07-2006 14:46 sidia wrote:
[quote] On 08-07-2006 12:29 AnisJ wrote:

...


Mas Fairus yth.,

Jangan putar 2 seperti balanda
--------
Iya , nanti pusing Emoticon: Clown
(tujuh keliling) [/quote]


I'm not moving around the circle. Just sitting and writing posts. Emoticon: Smile

I'm in a very healthy condition dear Mister sir. Emoticon: Smile

Pusing tujuh keliling = vertigo seven around ? LOL



maseddi
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On 08-07-2006 11:34 AnisJ wrote:
Hormat s.mua yth.,

Is this pre-Sharia ......... or what ???
But I am able to state this easily, as a christian; but what about our Islamatic friends on this forum, what do they personily about this situation.
"In case of misunderstanding, personily I also do not believe in Christian fundamentalism either ........"
So silahkan ....... reaksi .......
What about the national garantee of the Panca Sila consept .......


Dear mr Anis

In fact all muslims are fundementalists if they follow the five principles

Shahadah, Salat, Zakat, Sawm,Hajj

I can see nothing bad about doing so.

Fundamentalism is a name given to some old fashioned christians who are following "biblibcal principles" (what are they that muslims cannot agree with?) to the large extent








Sweet young thing

AbahFairus
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Dear readers,

If there is no one would refute to my points, I will conclude that :

- Sharia ( Islamic legal system ) that was born 1400 years ago, has shown its conformity with modern principles, and values of How Reliable legal system should be. Thus, it could be accepted as Formal Legal System in a society that choose Sharia as their legal system.

- Fiqih ( Islamic laws ) as a practical branch of Sharia can be accepted due to its flexiblity and interpretability.

- The rejection of Sharia mostly come from the missunderstanding of The core concept and meaning of Sharia. Sharia often be misunderstood as LAW, or more narrowly "Penal Code".

- Penal code is only a small part of SHARIA.

- Islamic Penal Code is often misunderstood as a single step judicial method (everytime a person found guilty, he or she should be punished immediately). In fact, Islamic Penal Code has step by step approaches.

- Punishment in Islamic penal code is the final step. Punishment ( especially the highest ones ) should be given by considering Society sense of justice. Punishment, as the final step, should be avoided as can as possible.

- last but not least, As a relatively old legal system. Sharia is completely modern even to today sense. I do have an opinion that every "Modern" Legal system has been imitated Sharia in principles and values, regardless aware or not.

Refutation is openly welcome.




AbahFairus
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Well said maseddi ! I can't agree more.



AbahFairus
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I do have an opinion that every "Modern" Legal system has been imitated Sharia..............

Sorry for the inconvenience fellas, it should read has been imitating........



maseddi
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On 06-07-2006 19:36 Amadeus wrote:
Abahfairus,

I feel I have to respond as an modern Indonesian muslim woman living in the Netherlands. According to me the sharia law is a very stupid oldfashioned law. I really hate to see that stupid fundamentalistic bastards are making a good and peacefull I believe in bad in the eyes of the nonmuslim.

How can you ever aprove stoning as punishment of adultry, and cutting of hands for thieves it really is discusting.


I always wonder why people are always associating sharia with old fashioned punishments like cutting hands and throwing stones and the like.

If sharia is introduced in a modern country like the netherlands, thieves are for instance caught in jail or should pay a fine and mass-murderers or drugsdealers will not be given a death penalty by sitting on an electric chair like in a modern country as the US or some others in Asia

Don't be afraid Emoticon: Smile



Sweet young thing

maseddi
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On 08-07-2006 15:47 AbahFairus wrote:
Well said maseddi ! I cant agree more.


You're welcome mr /mrs AbahFairus
You're given some good insights into Islam, islamic law and the like
Very interesting....




Sweet young thing

maseddi
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On 08-07-2006 12:29 AnisJ wrote:

...


Mas Fairus yth.,

Jangan putar 2 seperti balanda ...... what do you think personally about this very issue: Islamatic law or not ....... what about Panca Sila .....


mr anis

I found the Buddhist concept of pancasila

1. I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living beings.
2. I undertake the precept to refrain from stealing.
3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct (adultery, rape, etc.).
4. I undertake the precept to refrain from false speech (lying).
5. I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicants which lead to heedlessness.

About point 5 I will add I undertake the precept to refrain from eating pork meat , even forbidden to christians according to Deutoronium (The Laws)

Why shouldn't faithful muslims don't agree with these?








Sweet young thing

AnisJ
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Mas Eddi yth.,

You forgot one thing Panca Sila is a State Filosophy ....... it is like a 'big cake', where everybody is able to take its slice from, so you take what you want for yourself.
But INDOnesian radical extremists want Indonesia only to apply Sharia law for the entire country; even in those areas where they are a minority.
The aim is also to make INDOnesia an Islamatic based state.

Of course this is not exceptable for some parts of INDOnesia.

Sampai disini dulu ....


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
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On 08-07-2006 15:51 AbahFairus wrote:
I do have an opinion that every "Modern" Legal system has been imitated Sharia..............

Sorry for the inconvenience fellas, it should read has been imitating........


Mas A. yth.,

What is your opinion on Tahãfut ???


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AbahFairus
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Mas Anis J Yth,

* As I said before, Sharia is not a LAW it is a LEGAL SYSTEM.

* Sharia principles are acceptable even in modern sense. Legal system priciples of Modern western countries do have similatiries with Sharia principles ( the legal system from 1400 yrs ago). If you think that it is only extrimists who want to apply Sharia principles to be legal their legal system, you have to also think that European/american lawyers are extrimists too.

* Do you mean Tahafut al falasifa ?




searching
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Hahaha,

Now the slicky people show their colors.
I want to ask you, why Piagam Jakarta is not used?
Sila I
Ketuhanan yang maha esa dengan kewajiban menjalankan shariah islam BAGI PARA PEMELUKNYA.

That's what Piagam Jakarta said.

And it was protested by the NON moslem.

Now you want to apply the law for NON moslem? Bravo!!

Abah Fairus, who said that Sharia Law principles are acceptable in modern sense?
Now I want to ask you, what is the punishment of those who converts from Islam to other religion according to Sharia Law? Compare it to modern system.
This is only one point. I will add others.

Searching



Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

searching
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And how about the dress code according to Sharia Law and modern system?
Don't try to fool people, thinking they don't know much about sharia law.

Searching

www.faithfreedom.org




Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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On 14-07-2006 12:24 searching wrote:

Dont try to fool people, thinking they dont know much about sharia law.

Searching

www.faithfreedom.org


Of course "they" know a lot abt sharia law.

Anyway , welcome back again.
I miss your excellent contribution for a long time.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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sidia

you miss me? Indeed.
Unless you want to address the points I mentioned on behalf of Abah Fairus, well, I have nothing to say.
Have you come to the site? Do you still believe in Quran and Hadiths?


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

AbahFairus
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Dear searching

Searching : Hahaha,

I reply : Wow…what a happy guy ! Emoticon: Smile

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Searching : Now the slicky people show their colors.

I reply : You are the first person who mention the judgmental/stereotyping phrase like “slicky people” here. Nice to know more about you. Emoticon: Smile
To be honest, I was expecting “academic based” discussion without any judgmental or stereotyping phrases involve. But I think we have to be tolerant to anybody who still need some more time to learn to discuss in “academic based manner”.

Ups sorry ! you are not the first one. Kiwimave is the first one who use the words like “stupid” and “bastard”.

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Searching : I want to ask you, why Piagam Jakarta is not used?
Sila I
Ketuhanan yang maha esa dengan kewajiban menjalankan shariah islam BAGI PARA PEMELUKNYA.
That's what Piagam Jakarta said.
And it was protested by the NON moslem.

I reply : From the sentence above, we know that The obligation to follow the Islamic sharia is for muslims only(just read the sentence carefully) . If the writers of piagam Jakarta also wanted non-Muslims to follow Sharia. They might wrote the sentence in this way :
Ketuhanan yang maha esa dengan menjalankan syariat Islam bagi SEMUANYA. It is obvious that the writers of Piagam Jakarta wanted Sharia to be followed JUST by Muslims only.
Perhaps, the non-Muslims who protested didn’t understand that by omitting the line, there is a possibility for non-muslims to have an obligation to follow SHARIA. Think about it ! Emoticon: Smile

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Now you want to apply the law for NON moslem? Bravo!!

I never said that I WANT to apply Islamic Law to non-Muslims. I entered the discussion because of the massive misunderstanding about SHARIA (Islamic LEGAL SYSTEM) and Fiqih (Islamic Law).
You can check my posts out.
And If you read my old posts carefully, you will understand that sharia is not a LAW. Sharia is LEGAL SYSTEM. I’m sure that you can differentiate the meaning of LAW and LEGAL SYSTEM.
Furthermore, I’m sure that the purpose of this discussion is not to show anybody’s “want” or “need”.




AbahFairus
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Searching

searching : Abah Fairus, who said that Sharia Law principles are acceptable in modern sense?

I reply : Sharia is not a LAW, Sharia is Legal system. I had wrote in my post no 7,8, 9 and so on the reasons why Islamic Legal system (Sharia) can be accepted in modern sense.

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Searching : Now I want to ask you, what is the punishment of those who converts from Islam to other religion according to Sharia Law? Compare it to modern system.

I reply : Firstly, There are no punishments in Sharia, Sharia is not just a “Penal code”. You are confusing Sharia with “Islamic Penal code”/ Criminal law/ hukum pidana. If you are questioning what is the punishment for any criminal act in Sharia, you will not get the answer. This is the same with if you are questioning, what is the punishment for Bank Robbery according to “UUD 45”. Or……….. Do you want to know what is the punishment for credit card fraud according to “The Declaration of independence” of USA.

Secondly, there is no such punishment for anybody who convert from Islam to other religion in any “mainstream” Islamic law (fiqih). Even quitting from Islam is not considered as a crime in mainstream fiqih.

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searching : This is only one point. I will add others.

I reply : Please do not hesitate.



AF




AbahFairus
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Searching

Searching : And how about the dress code according to Sharia Law and modern system?

I reply :
Again, The word sharia and the word LAW aren’t fit to each other.
Regarding the dress code, the only “dress code” according to Islamic Dress Code is that Muslimeen ( male Muslim ) and Muslima ( female Muslim ) are recommended to dress modestly.

If you are interested discussing Islamic dress code you can create a new forum to discuss this issue. It would be very interesting, don’t you think ?
I’m sure that the members/readers of this forum would like to know your ability to counter the statement that “Islamic dress code” is a “Rational Dress Code”.

Oooo……before we continue the discussion about Islamic dress code in another forum, you need to know that The use of Hijab, Kerudung, Jilbab, Muslima dress by many Muslimas can not be said as a part of “Islamic dress code”, it is an “Islamic fashion” (you can say that way) instead. Emoticon: Smile

Do you know what “The modern Dress Code” is? Is it a kind of “International dress code” that is used as a “global dress Code” recently ? Can you give us an example of the application of “Modern dress code system” ?

The use of the term “Modern” is a bit vaque isn’t it ?

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Searching : Don't try to fool people, thinking they don't know much about sharia law.

I reply : I don’t try to fool anybody. I don’t know why you seem to be interested in what I never say than to what I wrote.

I’m sure that this forum is an open discussion forum. I do think that in an open discussion forum, everybody is free to support his/her opinion by fact, logic, ratio, and basic knowledge. Regardless of somebody’s motives, we should focus the discussion on our written statements.

SAYING that somebody is trying to FOOL somebody else can not be considered as ACADEMIC MANNER.

From my standpoint, I thought that they don’t know much about Sharia from the fact that they misused the term sharia for the meaning of LAW.
If they knew much about SHARIA, there wouldn’t be misunderstanding in using the term SHARIA and FIQIH, between LEGAL SYSTEM and LAW, which is the very basic thing.




AF









AbahFairus
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searching,

Why don't you bring up every issue, from the site you have recomendded, to be discussed in this forum.

If you believe that the site is accurate (the probability for the site to be wrong is below 20 %) and you have a firm belief that you are able to make your point on every critical issue on Islamic teaching. There is no worry for you to discuss the issues.



sidia
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Abah : Emoticon: Worship Emoticon: Worship Emoticon: Worship

Searcher : Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up!


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/


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