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I still hope for the polulation of the Molukken that once they can raise their flag of independence. Still the islands are known to be occupied and who knows how long it takes before the will is there to let them get their independence.

Who of the revellers has been to Ambon recently and what is there to do and see nowadays. How are the people, compared to those on Java and is RI still busy with the horrible transmigrasi politics?



londoh
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A lttle bit of RMS history


The first president of the Republik Maluku Selatan (till May 3, 1950), J.H. Manuhutu, in traditional costume (photo: MHM)


The 2nd president of the RMS, mr.dr. Chr. Soumokil, between supporters at Ceram.(photo: MHM)


On December 2, 1963 Dr .Soumokil was arrested by the Indonesian army and executed on April 12, 1966.
Ir. J. Manusama became the new Pesident in exile (in the Netherlands) In april 1993 Ir. Manusama handed
over his function to Dr. Frans Tutuhatunewa

Source of the pics: www.nationaalarchief.nl



Agung
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On 24-04-2006 19:00 bloodhoundfromhell wrote:
I still hope for the polulation of the Molukken that once they can raise their flag of independence. Still the islands are known to be occupied and who knows how long it takes before the will is there to let them get their independence.

Who of the revellers has been to Ambon recently and what is there to do and see nowadays. How are the people, compared to those on Java and is RI still busy with the horrible transmigrasi politics?
I think the only viable solution for Indonesia is to become something like a federation of islands, instead of the centralized republic it is nowadays. This would mean each part of the country would have more possibilities to control its own destiny. The island that receives immigrants would in such a situation be an important player when it comes to transmigration.

The transition from Indonesia as more or less a dictatorial governed country to a real democracy demands that its population really wants to be part of that country. In essence this is the critical bump Indonesia has to take in the next few years. Just forcing people to be part of something, like they’ve done till now, is bound to be unsuccessful in the end.




sidia
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On 25-04-2006 13:43 Agung wrote:

...


This would mean each part of the country would have more possibilities to control its own destiny. The island that receives immigrants would in such a situation be an important player when it comes to transmigration.


RMS

Ambon - Haruku - Saparua ?


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

kiwimave
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As a Java lover I dont think the domination is that bad... Emoticon: Wink No seriously why creating a lot of seperate nations from one nation? What's the use of it? We all saw in the Balkan what will happen then, all those small nations start fighting each other.


Gracias. Sama sama

AnisJ
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I am not intended to things complicated, but as you have Moluccan republicans , you also have Moluccan federalists ....... whilst everybody are looking at R.M.S.-supporters ....... some sections in INDOnesian society as some Moluccans, want to make the R.M.S. mice 'big elephants' ........ "of course for their own purpose too" ........




'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

HorasBatak
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On 25-04-2006 15:08 kiwimave wrote:
No seriously why creating a lot of seperate nations from one nation?


Indonesia never was one nation in the time the Dutch ruled parts of it, ndonesia is possible because under Japanese rule Sukarno could make his dream come true.

If the dutch didn't lose Ceylon to the british this island also would be a part of Indonesia. Could you even imagine that.

The fact is that Indonesia is one state with many "states", Like the US, only the "states" (like Aceh, Malukku, Papua, Kaliamantan) do not have the same kind of souvereign power over their own "states" like the states in the US.
The States in the US have the power to make their own laws and collect their own taxes to use for their own development.

In the Indonesian situation "Jakarta / Java" makes the laws and collect the taxes to spend it in "Jakarta / Java".

But the idea of an federal "United States of Indonesia" will never be implemented by the Indonesian Gouvernment because the idea of an "United States of Indonesia" was an Dutch idea at the peace talks in 1949/1950.

In my idea the RMS will never be realised, the Indonesian leaders don't want to lose face to their former colonisers


Kepala botak tapi dengan otak

sidia
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On 26-04-2006 08:01 HorasBatak wrote:

...


*
If the dutch didnt lose Ceylon to the british this island also would be a part of Indonesia. Could you even imagine that.
*But the idea of an federal "United States of Indonesia" will never be implemented by the Indonesian Gouvernment because the idea of an "United States of Indonesia" was an Dutch idea at the peace talks in 1949/1950.
*In my idea the RMS will never be realised, the Indonesian leaders dont want to lose face to their former colonisers


*It's a deal/ agremeent between Inggris and Belanda .
Even Soekarno CS (Republik) were thinking to inculde malaysia and Singapura.
* An unrealistic idea of the Dutch Government (Den Haag) .
(Verdeel en heers politics)
* RMS : is a bad dream of several thousands ex KNIL .
It was a dispute between ex Ambonese Knil and The Dutch Government.
And not only the leadres , the Indonesian People including the Ambonese Indonesian are against the RMS.






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Agung
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Cutting up Indonesia in small parts will result in parts like east Timor. They’re very happy to be independent, but they have no viable economy. I don't think the RMS would be an economical success.

For only a few parts of Indonesia independence would mean economical success. Maybe Java, Bali and the places with lots of oil or gold would be able to be successful on their own, but this would also mean other places would suffer more than today.

I'm still convinced a federation would be best for all:
" The United States Of Indonesia "

It already sounds impressive!




londoh
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On 26-04-2006 13:59 Agung wrote:

Im still convinced a federation would be best for all:
" The United States Of Indonesia "

It already sounds impressive!


As long there are 120.000.000++ Javanese this will never happen, they are convinced they cannot live without their colonies (Jawa jadi Mati) they will fight till the "titik darah terakhir" but maybe before do what they did to East Timor, destroy. They can't stand losing although it are born losers.



AnisJ
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On 26-04-2006 08:01 HorasBatak wrote:

...


But the idea of an federal "United States of Indonesia" will never be implemented by the Indonesian Gouvernment because the idea of an "United States of Indonesia" was an Dutch idea at the peace talks.


"What about 'NUSAnTara' as an idea, made in INDOnesia ...... mas ???"


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

Agung
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On 26-04-2006 14:14 londoh wrote:

...

As long there are 120.000.000++ Javanese this will never happen, they are convinced they cannot live without their colonies (Jawa jadi Mati) they will fight till the "titik darah terakhir" but maybe before do what they did to East Timor, destroy. They cant stand losing although it are born losers.
Yes, it's amazing how much similarity there is between the way Jawa governs this country and how Holland used to do it: the results of the country go back to the main land. At least they learned something in those ~350 years in Jakarta.



sidia
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On 27-04-2006 17:10 Agung wrote:

...


At least they learned something in those ~350 years in Jakarta.


Heeeh , (hoebedoeltu)??

The Indonesians knew the tribute systems more than 800 (eight hundreds) years earlier.
(maybe 1400 years=. if you also included the Sundanese Kingdoms.)


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

boparan
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Hai Londoh!

I couldn't agree more with you: “As long there are 120.000.000++ Javanese this will never happen”! Since less than a decade, the Republic has become a democracy. And, isn’t a democracy ruled by the majority? So, by voting, the interests of the Javanese will always prevail. But that other part of the democracy, the principle of bearing in mind the interests of the minority, has only started to show its face during the past few years: many propinsi try to be as inventive as possible to find enough money-eating projects to show that the government does. On the other hand I think that, upon the dividing of the profits of the whole Republic, especially this country made a huge step forward in a relative short stretch of time.

I also agree with HorasBatak: “Indonesia is possible because under Japanese rule Sukarno could make his dream come true.” I even dare to say that this was also possible thanks to the supervision of the United Nations and the USA (and a lot less to the input of Inggris, Om Sid), in which case I especially aim at the way Papua became part of “Indonesia” years after. This Indonesia, all people on these fora seem to have enclosed in their hearts, is not a country in the historical way as Barat talks about countries. In another forum, as you know, I already stated two important reasons for Sukarno wanting Papua to be part of Indonesia. There, for sure, was an economical one (let’s get as much profit from these parts as possible) and one refering to the historical “inheritance” (Papua had been part of the earlier Dutch East Indies); maybe more, but definitely nothing less. And it’s more than likely, he wanted the other parts before on the same behalf. Thus, Java will never be able to survive without the profits it derives from the other islands. And yes, Java learned from the Dutch: they just overtook the character Belanda memperlihatkan yg 350 tahun sebelum!!!! Sukarno was not only the William from Orange of Indonesia as some people might memorate him. Besides a Don Juan, he was an Ali Baba as well!

Bo



aduh, aduh, aduh, mana tahan....!

boparan
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Pak Agung,

I was surprised by your statement: “Maybe Java, Bali and the places with lots of oil or gold would be able to be successful on their own”. I am convinced that even the annual production of padi within the “ricebarn” of Java will not be enough to feed all Javanese for that same year. And then the major part of that production is sold to other countries; where the Javanese have no choice but eating cheap rice, imported from Bangla Desh and other SE-Asian countries (have you never seen the karung on the pasar?)……… And now I am discussing beras saja!!

Why this degenerating last sentence in your contribution?
Are you really convinced of the stupidity of Indonesian peoples and the Javanese in particular, or are you trying to be cynical? I experience it as a cheap remark across the backs of people who are not being able to respond here. Emoticon: Nooo

But for a 100% I do agree with your statement concerning " The United States Of Indonesia ". Walaupun, …. the best for all? Maybe, yes, but then with a huge exception for Java as everybody will understand from the above!!!!!!!! Emoticon: Frustrated

Bo Paran



aduh, aduh, aduh, mana tahan....!

sidia
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On 03-05-2006 00:50 boparan wrote:


I also agree with HorasBatak: “Indonesia is possible because under Japanese rule Sukarno could make his dream come true.”

I even dare to say that this was also possible thanks to the supervision of the United Nations and the USA (and a lot less to the input of Inggris, Om Sid), in

which case I especially aim at the way Papua became part of “Indonesia” years after.


Pls read time line sejarah indonesia.
See at Sumpah Pemuda 1928 and Madjapahit abt 700 years earlier.

No , because the Indonesian kick the belandas from indosenia.

I had read it was possible acc. the Unie Indonesia - Nederland.


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