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aliakbar
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Indonesia was the strongest largest country in the South East Asia in the eighties and early nineties, Do we see a chance it can make a comeback ?
Can it prove to all the masses of the world that it has enormous potential ?


www Jakarta through the Eyes of an Expat

diederick
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On 14-04-2004 15:18 aliakbar wrote:
Indonesia was the strongest largest country in the South East Asia in the eighties and early nineties

Indonesia is by far the largest country in South East Asia so it is easy to be the "strongest largest country". There is no other one!
To your two questions I would answer: no (their chance has passed already, see the transfer of low-paid work to Vietnam) and no (the enormous potential is in China). Only if they are able to hang on to China (and i see all kinds of efforts in that direction, so that is good) it may me possible that Indonesia can become one of the major bandwagons of the dynamic Chinese economy



Blog Bot
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I think the very reason for that is the money.
Indonesia doesn't have any at the moment.
During before & post Suharto/Habibie transition, US $60 BILLION taken away/ shifted to many different countries..so Indonesian's treasury is empty now..... only small businesses in kampung level are doing their "survival" stages..... Emoticon: Cry Emoticon: Sadley


I tell a lot of stories I have heard elsewhere

budowono1
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ofcourse Indonesia still is.
jus wai till 5 YUNI when Tanjung atau Wiranto win ....!!

Aceh was just to show neighboring countries we still no 1
there wouldn't even be a ASEAN if not for Indonesia.

On 14-04-2004 15:37 diederick wrote) Indonesia is by far the largest country in South East Asia so it is easy to be the "strongest largest country". There is no other one!
To your two questions I would answer: no (their chance has passed already, see the transfer of low-paid work to Vietnam) and no (the enormous potential is in China).

i don't think so China is Not South East Asia
south Asia and Vietnam is nothing.

there are 3 of the 3 Asia sub Continen.
Seuth East Indonesia. east China. south West Jepang.

1 Jepang
2 Cina
3 Indonesia



diederick
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Budowono, you dissapoint me. You with your Chinese roots should know that the Chinese were. (then for time a little less) are now and will be the strongest trade-nation in the world. Not only through their sheer numbers, but also because they (in general) very cunning in trade and manufactoring. Off course I know that China is not South-East Asia. But hey, what are borders and regions now in the global economic society. That are 20th century ideas.
It is typical that you underestimate countries like Vietnam or Malaysia. I think this is one of the reasons why Indonesia does not perform that good as they could. Know your competitors!
And now a little history. Budowono, can you tell me the result of the covert war from Indonesia with Malaysia in the sixties?



budowono1
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yeah in a way that may be true but.
Malaysia army is now strong only cause many of the officers are Indonesia Refugees.
that fled afted G30s.
and have a melayu nasionality.

it may be true that they are economicly stronger than Indonesia and even perhaps politicly but not in force.
Indonesia is the 3rd largest asian militairy force.
and the nomber 1 the South East Asia sub continent.

the reason is because TNI shows his power to the world by covert operations in let's say Bandera a normal foot soldier would have been enaugh for Situasi gam but to show that Indonesia is still no 1
they send Kompasus.

it was also send as a warning to the world that Indonesia is stronger than ever.

Vietnam may be stronger political for the moment but has a unstable defence goverment and malaysia is at a low profile gover ment cause it is a police cauntry not militairy li RI



diederick
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Well, Budowono, I have to be honest and I have to say that i am not impressed by the Indonesian military power. They have send their elite forces to Bandara Aceh, almost a year ago, and it seems that they are still not able to control the area. And who are their opponents? Some rebels with small arms (no navy, no air support). They lack also discipline if you read all the reports f.i. of arrogant behaviour (even in Jakarta). So I don't think that their neighbours or the world is very impressed by their "prestasi" thus far.
Further Navy (quite important for an archipelago like Indonesia and Air Force in are underequiped and have to old material.
But anyway? Who needs a army nowadays. It cost a lot of money and where are the external enemies? I guess Indonesia has none. A small defence force will be more then enough. Indonesia should also get more involved in UN-operations instead of using the army for all kinds of internal causes.



budowono1
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yes maybe so but is agaynst indonesia principle to get involved with some 1 els war that 1 of reason soekarno left Un ,
plus that TNi was founded by jepang militer and there for is a ellite militer force .

Tni only fight nasional not internas.
acording to old indonesia teashing say one shall not fight a othermans war but instead train and prepair insecracey it means.

but interfr fear we make unnecacery enamy.
and show weakneses cause enmy can obeserve you that way but by keeping silance we can increase tstrengh and power no one will expect elemen of serprice.
this principle of brahma ........!!!!



bangwin
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On 03-05-2004 13:18 budowono1 wrote:

this principle of brahma ........!!!!


Does it means that TNI are comes from Brahmana?.....I'm a little bit confused now...
It's make sense if TNI is stands for Tentara Nasional India....not Indonesia Emoticon: Puh!



budowono1
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no no no .
the principle is just figer speach.

it meannin we must not interfear with other peoples trouble but beter worry aboud own trouble .
cause if you do you make unnecaseri enamy.

it old Sanscrit principle .
as u know indonesia use amny sanskrit.
Panca Sila it self still sanskrit word

our Gove still aply sanskrit and thesebudhis and hindu prinicple.
cause if you truly know sejrarah you understand.


do you KNOW WHAT I MEAN NOW ???




budowono1
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I mean sejarah



bangwin
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now i understand....terimakasih pak guru.... Emoticon: Shiny



budowono1
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ok



budowono1
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Emoticon: Cooool



elang-biru
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Well the US also have many special and elite forces in Irak, but can they control irak with the many guerrillas?? Well just count the DEATH US soldiers.

Since TNI send their special forces to Aceh they have killed and captured many GAM members and GAM now is heavely weakened. Please now what u say before u post !!!!! Emoticon: Shut up!



AnisJ
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To Aliakbar,

'Why does Indonesia need to be a 'number one super power' why do
we need this 'extensive talking' ??
You do not need to show power for this country, that is called Indonesia. It is not a country but a collection of indegenous people that is derived from a colonial Dutch period .
Look at the effectiveness of the regular Indonesian army, as for now it had not proven its ligitimacy uptill now; it had only fought inside the country.
The war against Malaysia in the sixties had failed !!!
As long as the country is not able to be sucessfull in its aims in making the country a unity: all the ideas of beiing a 'superpower' country will fail !!!

Greets ... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

Michaell
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Indonesia is in potential a big player on the asian market, however due to the economic crisis indonesia have been throwed back in the proces of economic grow.

Because of its political enviremont, which is not steady, it's hard for foreign company's to invest. Too many restrictions and laws made it hard and its that's not an advantadge to lure those company's. But it seems that the goverment will make the indonesian market more open and approachable for foreign company's in the near future. I think it depends of the indonesian political situation and the goverments decisions if Indonesia will be back in the top of Asia again as an economic power (im not mentioning military power).



AnisJ
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To Michaell,

Michaell what do you know of the INDOnesian economy ?
As long as the country is very much dependent on the Chinese and the Chinese working mentality 'Indonesia tida maju'.
Interesting is what will be the new motor in INDOnesian economy: the Islamist bussinessman !!
If the country want to go ahead it has to rely on its own power; probably they will represent also the new 'working mentality', perhaps also free of corruption.
It is very logic too, for the country in majority is Islam.

Greets,

Anis


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

Michaell
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Anis,

For your information, I'm following the Indonesian economy for a while now and did my essay on it. ..i'm not telling that im right, this is just my opinion.

In your reply you pointed to 2 big problems of the indonesian economy.

1. The corruption level in Indonesia is very high, from the local goverment officers to the people in the parliament. It's good that the goverment is handelling this issue, but i dont think we can expect some major changes in the moral of the indonesian people in the near future, however it's a good start to at least try.

2. Indonesia rely too much on it's own possibillities and power, indonesia dont want any involvement of any other countries. With the possibillities and chances what lies within indonesia a free market will pump up the economy. I'm not saying that indonesia should open wide the door, but with better regulations and laws for foreign company's to act on the indonesian market will be only in indonesia's advantage.

I'm not issueing the religions mathers, but if indonesia is heading for a complete Islamic nation, it will only scare other countries, company's and investers.. Not for being a Islamic nation, but for the rules and laws what it brings along.

Indonesia have still a very long way to go in this process for being a economic power of Asia.




AnisJ
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Michaell,

You do not have to study much of economy of this country, it is a fact that it depend very much on the chinese.
Why do you fear Islam, I do not, as a christian myself.
You see the Islam issue as a prejudiced westerner, I am not looking towards the indoctrination by extremists, but at the ordinary people
that live on a daily base with their sometimes christian neighbour(s).

Greets,

AnisJ.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

diederick
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Like in the Moluccas (Ambon) and Sulawesi (Palu). Anis? Or like in Jakarta where a catholic congregation was forbidden to hold services by their neighbours? As a prejudiced Westerner (off course Easterners are not prejudiced), and even a non-believer in anything, I really think that Indonesia is a good example of the possibility of different religions living together. But hey, don't act as if there are no problems.



AnisJ
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Dear Diederick,

What I to say that there is much 'generalization' about the topic Íslam'
for example: 'You can not blame a 'bad' minority for the big majority'.
In the second W-war not all Dutch people are a member of the N.S.D.A.P of 'chaiman' Mussert !!!
But .... this would not make them 'Jew/Israelian' sympathic either !!!!

Greets,
Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
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Adding to the previous,

What the country need is, to practicize the national ideology: Together we are one, altough differing.
In INDOnesia people always say/state this ideology, but not practize it !!!!

Greets,
Anis...


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
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Adding to the previous,

What the country need is, to practicize the national ideology: Together we are one, altough differing.
In INDOnesia people always say/state this ideology, but not practize it !!!!

Greets,
Anis...


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


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