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principe
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[quote]"Pardon me, this forum does not consist of you two".
"Who are you to tell others what to do ..... ; is this your style to discuss ..... I myself believe in: the speech of freedom ........ !!! Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes! [/quote][/quote]


I think Searching meant the discussion between me and him about the subject. Am I right searching ? To which I agreed.

I am certainly non telling you or anybody what to do regarding this forum. I think that's Mr Jeroen's prerogative.



searching
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Anis,

I end discussion with Principe about the Soya attack for two main reasons:
1) Principe and I had very different approach concerning the reasoning and in the last statement, he said he revealed how he constructed his reasonings/research only to certain people (like his professors) whom he thinks worth the effort. So there's no way I can ask him to do so, then it's no use to continue the discussion.
2) The Soya attack was a bit OOT (out of topic). This thread is about the cruel beheading of three Christian girls.

But you may continue the discussion with Principe about Soya attack, if you think he will want to continue.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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I wonder that some people in this forum" in this topic always pointing to muslim if there are something wrong happened.
Why not a neutral opinion : A terorist attact and and the perpetrator(s) is unknown .
Yes , within 1-2 hours blaming , judging the (muslim) terorist.
According the logic of someone and maybe some people here , the terorist /perpetrator must be muslim , because the victims are christian.
Without evidence etc etc. In my opinion to soon , premature etc.
We must wait what the reason is , from agama , politic or conflict of interest .

If you read another topic , also regarding Poso , see : Two Poso students shot ----- ., you can read that the 2 victims are a muslim and a christian girls.

WHO is now the potential perpetrators ? A muslim , A christian , A third party ?

Very quiet in this forum , very strange ??
see Also www.antara.co.id/seenws/index.php?id=22132





Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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Sidia,


I wonder that some people in this forum" in this topic always pointing to muslim if there are something wrong happened.
Why not a neutral opinion : A terorist attact and and the perpetrator(s) is unknown .
Yes , within 1-2 hours blaming , judging the (muslim) terorist.
According the logic of someone and maybe some people here , the terorist /perpetrator must be muslim , because the victims are christian.
Without evidence etc etc. In my opinion to soon , premature etc.
We must wait what the reason is , from agama , politic or conflict of interest .

If you read another topic , also regarding Poso , see : Two Poso students shot ----- ., you can read that the 2 victims are a muslim and a christian girls.

WHO is now the potential perpetrators ? A muslim , A christian , A third party ?


I said that it's high probability it's moslems. She might be the unwanted victim. Do you think the Islamic bombers like Azahari never killed moslems? But they choose the place where the majority are not. That's my point of view.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

AnisJ
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On 10-11-2005 08:49 sidia wrote:
Why not a neutral opinion : A terorist attact and and the perpetrator(s) is unknown .
Yes , within 1-2 hours blaming , judging the (muslim) terorist.
If you read another topic , also regarding Poso , see : Two Poso students shot ----- ., you can read that the 2 victims are a muslim and a christian girls.

WHO is now the potential perpetrators ? A muslim , A christian , A third party ?


"Sid' why should there not be a 'third party' be involved, there are many potentials in INDOnesia ....... I do not have to tell you; at least not ordinary people be it christians nor muslims ......


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sidia
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On 10-11-2005 13:05 searching wrote:
Sidia,


...


I said that its high probability its moslems.

She might be the unwanted victim.

Do you think the Islamic bombers like Azahari never killed moslems? But they choose the place where the majority are not.

Thats my point of view.


In a sensitive situation must everybode trying to be careful.
And giving an opinion without prejudice.

Abt Azahari is o.o.t , but I give you answer : everyone who can read and think normal can see that there are also muslim victims.
As you know it is forbidden (it is written ) , that a muslim kill another(innocent) muslim.That is why the other muslim(moderates or not) see their act as a terorist act .And also as a political act .

abt the "unwanted victim " : who is the unwanted ? , the muslim girl or the christian girl. (the 2 poso girls) .

Do you have read the article ? , there are also other (older)articles about the problems in Poso.
(it seems basicly political and economical reason).


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

AnisJ
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Aduh "Sid" dia cepat sekali, 'Overtoom' is also avaliable in INDOsnesos .....

Emoticon: Clown Emoticon: Clown boleh th lucu sedikit with this serious topic !!!


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sidia
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On 10-11-2005 15:24 AnisJ wrote:

...


"Sid why should there not be a third party be involved, there are many potentials in INDOnesia ....... I do not have to tell you; at least not ordinary people be it christians nor muslims ......


Yes , Anis .
Maybe there is a 3rd Party or other combination is also possible , why not.(conspiracy)
But mostly conflict of interest.
And It is stupid and dangerous to stigmatised people .


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sidia
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look like lucky luke


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

AnisJ
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On 10-11-2005 15:53 sidia wrote:
look like lucky luke


Yes, but I will not shoot my own shade .....


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

zieleffe
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Emoticon: Angry Hati-Hati only for peapel strong hart Emoticon: Angry
Allen voor kijkers die een sterk hart hebben en die tegen bloed kunnen
http://dog-pundit.blogspot.com(...)hristian-school.html


Verdediging is de ruiter van kritiek--- *O* --,Het doel heiligt de middelen

zieleffe
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Hati-Hati
Only for people strog heart order not to look Emoticon: Angry

http://dog-pundit.blogspot.com(...)hristian-school.html


Verdediging is de ruiter van kritiek--- *O* --,Het doel heiligt de middelen

searching
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In a sensitive situation must everybode trying to be careful.
And giving an opinion without prejudice.

Abt Azahari is o.o.t , but I give you answer : everyone who can read and think normal can see that there are also muslim victims.
As you know it is forbidden (it is written ) , that a muslim kill another(innocent) muslim.That is why the other muslim(moderates or not) see their act as a terorist act .And also as a political act .

abt the "unwanted victim " : who is the unwanted ? , the muslim girl or the christian girl. (the 2 poso girls) .

Do you have read the article ? , there are also other (older)articles about the problems in Poso.
(it seems basicly political and economical reason).



I read the article and it's a standard statement from someone from Government, to avoid a bigger clash.
It's forbidden to kill Moslems. But how, if one (like Azahari) thinks that the "moslems" he kills are traitors and not true moslems.
Isn't in Islamic History Allah was angry to the moslems who refused to do the 'hijjrah' and even threatened them with hell? (Read Sahih Bukhari about that).
Political problem and economical problem are everywhere. But why is mostly the moslems who blow up riots? See in Egypt, France, Indonesia. It's not the moslems fault, it must be something else. And we have to see the teaching.

By the way, shooting might hit unwanted victims, but beheading is not. You can look at the photos by Zieleffe, and ask yourself.




Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sglange
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To all concern in this forum.
Let it be known that no true Muslim/s will decapitate another person even though he/she is from another religion. From what I can see is that there is another motive for the decapitation of the three innocent Christian girls of which neither me nor others will ever know. Even if the truth is known, it will always be withheld by the authorities concern. What I would like to see is this, that the Islamic (Muslim) and Christian Organisations sit down and discuss ways how to solve the current religious issues in Indonesia rather than await the Central Government in Jakarta of whom I consider not effective in dealing with the current situation in Sulteng.
For us in this forum instead of making a big fuss over who is right and wrong in this issue, maybe a group can be form to to discuss ways on solving this issue thereafter when an agreement has been reached, to approach the various religious organisation/s and submit a proposal. I would like to see Indonesians domicile in their country to play a major part...if this can be done then peace can be achieve. This is for the good of the country and never, never allow your country to disintergrate into bits and pieces which is what has happened to the USSR and Yogoslavia.
Let me make it clear here, I am not an Indonesian but I have a special interest as regards Indonesia cause my family are Indonesians and domicile there. Thank you.



sascha
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On 11-11-2005 08:05 sglange wrote:

This is for the good of the country and never, never allow your country to disintergrate into bits and pieces which is what has happened to the USSR and Yogoslavia.

O.T.:
Why dont let them be if they want to?? if its about national pride and power its stupid, if its because of economical interest its evil. If bavaria would become independent for example, i would happily welcome that. Emoticon: Devil
dont be so damn conservative, if people think they can do better on their own let them try Emoticon: Wink



AnisJ
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S.lmat s.mua yth.,

If you are interested in de 'Coker Gang' read in Dutch:

www.malra.org/posko/malra.php4?nr=18332

In English:

www.infid.be/kopassus_maluku.html


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

searching
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Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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Yes ,
No 1 : is Out of Topic. , thus irrelevant

N0 2 : I read the sites .

Only accusing people without evidence .
a. pers.org : april 28 2002 reporting abt unindentified attackers -----
b. jak.post 12 june 2002 reporting : A gang of masked man
c. repoting abt conflict (2001/2002 ? )
d. CNN : may 7 2002 Reporting Thalib (L .J.) = accused att. Soya.
e. Crosswalk : reporting Thalib(L.J) arested & accused iro Soya.

Everyone can read that L.J.(A muslim grp) is accused between 2001 and 2002
But in 2003 they caught the attackers the coker gang .(malra. org etc)

Again you can see and read that if something wrong happened , they always accused and blaming muslims .



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sascha
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Sidia if u could read u would also read that they didnt blame him for the attack itself but for agitating muslims to attack christians, whether it was muslims or not that attacked soya doesnt matter in that case. Stop playing a fool and defend someone who is surely not worth it. Not all muslims are always guilty but some are can be blamed.



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Its not relevant whether your a Muslim or Christian,to kill these children is against all morality,I saw their pictures on a very weird Internet site,and it was a schock to see the head of one girl totaly off from her body,as a human being not matter what kind of religion its against human kind..........



sidia
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Sascha ,

I dont say that the articles only blaming A persoon from the J.I.
It is 5 reports about the attacks of christians and church.
(Some) People are thinking that the potential perpretators must be J.I. linked grps.Because the victims are christians.(sound familiar to me that kind of logic , of course it is not my logic).
That is also why the police are investigating the J.I . man .Their job.
That hapened in the period to 2002.

In 2003 they caught the perpretator(s) the so called Coker gang.
And I give only my opinion about above points , and I have from the beginning in this topic my objection if some one have already an opinion and judging moslims.Without evidence.I say premature shouting.
In case of the 3 girls they dont have jet the perpetrators .And if they have caught they must also seek for evidence , and if they can find , then they must ask what the reason is that the perpetrators are kill ing people .
Political reason, economical or because of faith ? .
Of course it is always possible that terorist maybe have the islam as faith.
There is a great probabilty because the inhabitants of that country is almost 90% muslim.

And again try to respect the rules of discussion.
If you dont agree with my opinion than you must try to give yr opposite opinion.
And not only saying that yr opponent in discussion is playing fool.
And who is defending whom ???.

Please Try to discuss properly .




Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sidia
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Sorry ,
correction , not the J.I but the L.J.

Tukad G, I agree.
Murder is murder , and in this case (3grls) is also barbaric.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sascha
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"In an extract of a tape recording of Thalib's speech played by police to reporters, the purported voice of Thalib could be heard saying: "Prepare the bombs which we have, prepare ammunitions for us to vomit out from the mouth of the weapons which we possess.""
That are this guys words. Maybe they were not responsible for Soya massacre but it was not the only clash happening. Sure people will point their finger on such militia. Still i see no need to defend such a fellow muslim.
-edited-finally found some good complete read on the topic-edited-
True that Searching was providing mainly christian sides colored in their preferable direction.




sidia
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On 15-11-2005 20:38 sascha wrote:


Still i see no need to defend such a fellow muslim.
-edited-finally found some good complete read on the topic-edited-

True that Searching was providing mainly christian sides colored in their preferable direction.

Sascha ,
thank God you are now trying to discuss about some points and also
give yr opinion.

My comment :
a. In this topic and in this forum I cannot find one person who defending that kind of guys .No one. Maybe in another forum of their own friends .
But not in this forum.Btw Who is defending him ?? .
Can you give an example or a quote ??.

b. I dont care IF searcher ( only ) providing some coloured sites , that is his style of discussion . And it is only his own truth.
Everybody can read it , and sure they have also an opinion about it.








Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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Sidia,

I just want to prove my case that Laskar Jihad was very suspicious. And I don't wish to prolong things about Soya, because this is irrelevant to the thread title.

If I am not mistaken I post also the news from CNN. Well, I don't know, but you may believe that maltra than CNN. That's your personal choice, I will not force you anyway. It's a free world, where everyone can freely think without opression.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org


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