indahnesia.com - Discover Indonesia Online

    
You are currently in > Forum > In the news > View topic

17-01-2015 18:16 · [news] Three more bodies of AirAsia victims to Surabaya hospital  (1 reaction)
17-01-2015 01:23 · [news] Fuel prices lowered, again  (2 reactions)
17-01-2015 00:14 · [news] President dismisses Sutarman as national police chief  (0 reactions)
16-01-2015 12:44 · [news] Alleged terrorists shot dead three villagers in Poso  (3 reactions)
16-01-2015 02:15 · [news] Indonesia to execute six drug convicts  (0 reactions)

sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 

Friends :
I have read the news: Govt boost security after girls beheaded (placed almost 4 hours ago) .
And no one have give a quick reply.(minutes ago)

Because in this topic within 1,5 hour there are already some judgement , and some discussion between users.
I am wondering what the reason of it . ??


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sascha
User
User icon of sascha
spacer line
 


On 30-10-2005 11:29 sidia wrote:

...


Sascha try to behave , come with points , donot get personal.

1. I am nothing , even not educated enough.

2. you dont know what background I have.
3. Yes young man I am older than you (its fact) , and then ??? I know nothing about the "modern" stuff ? Do you know me ?


sidia thats exactly the point u also dont have any knowledge about others or my background, so dont call other people touris or question their knowledge about indonesia OK!!!!
And if other people say something just try to give it a thought once(not about my comments but take putri for example)
u ask for points?? what for?? u will simply ignore them(like what i brought up a lot of young indonesians find cruel stuff enterntaining)
U get personal all the time so dont cry now. I just gave u ur own medicine(bit exaggerated so)



aponto
User
spacer line
 

Sidia yth,
As you probably know from experience ,certain topics might be a reason for some visitors to start an agressive discussion.
There is nothing you can do about it.It reminds me of 1999 and brings me this situation into perspective.
I had invited some of the regulars to see me for a coffee visit,when the person
was around the place where we live in Indonesia.We have met him(coincidental)somewhere else .To be short:during our conversation he found that contempting and offending was basically allowed.
But I had also noticed a very remarkable thing.During our conversation
his views on issues in Indonesia were very different compared to his virtual contributions on many forums.
I know,it is not easy to ignore those persons and msgges.but I thinks it is the only medicine.
Aponto



Yogya-Bali
User
User icon of Yogya-Bali
spacer line
 


Nonsense ???
It is possible that you / yr friends have another experience and maybe the bad one.


I didn't say all of them have a bad experience but it is obvious for them that you can not talk about Indonesians because of the big differences between the several regions. And this is logical cause that's everywhere in the world with islanders. And if you imagine that Indonesia is as big as Europe... Also an Italian is quite different from a Norwegian. Although Europe is not one country, it is still understandable that you can hardly speak about Indonesians who can understand each other, knowing the rules, etc.



Yogya-Bali
User
User icon of Yogya-Bali
spacer line
 


On 30-10-2005 12:09 sidia wrote:
I think theproblems of the people of Nusa Tenggara Timur is beginning with the transitions from the R.I. S to R.I and in relation with the separation of The RMS from NTT.
The problem of SARA in the mollucas is beginning with the BBM (migrants) people from Sulawesi .(BBM=Buton Bugis Makasar).IF I am wrong please correct me .
Thus Y-B not only the Javanese migrants. see also several reports.


About Maluku you are right, the problems started with the so-called BBM. In Poso the same thing but then only the Bugis.
For Nusa Tenggara Timur it is quite a different thing. It has nothing to do with the RIS or the RMS, they are completely different from the West-Indonesians, even another race. And they feel oppressed by the Javanese; not the people but the Javanese culture which is so prominent in the government and the authorities. Talk with these people and then you will here what they think about the nowadays situation. Even talk with Bugis or Makasarese. Why you think they were so proud about Habibie becoming president and now Jusuf Kalla as vice-president. They don't like the Javanese hegemony of their island (not the number of Javanes migrants but the cultural colonization of Java; like the McDonald-zation of the world)); just because they don't understand their culture, their habits, the way of thinking.
Don't get me wrong, the last thing I would like to happen, is that Indonesia will be split like Yugoslavia. But that means that people (especially in Jakarta) have te realize how the other ethnic groups are feeling and thinking and not by putting the culture of the majority on a minority. Then you never will create a feeling of nationalism.
Did you know that on 17th of August most of the villages in Bali didn't want to celebrate Independence day? On TV they showed us how the Balinese were celebrating 17-8 on the beach of Kuta. At that same moment I was on the beach of Kuta and it was a complete set-up.
It is a certain sign, isn't it? And probably you can not blame the Balinese cause they suffered a lot the last years because of problems which were created by fellow-Indonesians from outside. The only reason that they react not in an anarchic way is because they realize very well that they are 100% depending on Jawa for their electricity.



sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 

Sascha :
In the 1st place an opinion with argument are important t me , not the background of someone.
But it could help to understand the reason/ arguments.
Frankly I dont know if you living in germany,but even so , you can have an opinion abt some theme.(in this case , this topic).
I am agree with the 1st one , but not agree abt the 2nd one.
Maybe it is to hard to say Rubbish , but that is my opinion, and with argument.
(premature judgement : Worst nobody ----29-10-2005 13.05)
In the same time you can read in several internet site (indonesian /dutch) that the Govt/ Pres. give orders to investigate the problem......

Abt Putri : I am mostly agree with her .
(read my mssg 30-10-2005 00.08)
Even I am saying : we can understand each others etc .
Y-B have another opinion, that is his right.

Being Personal : You are saying abt Mr Indonesia, my age etc ,= > Not pointing to my points. Are you Agree, Not Agree , and the reason/argument.

Abt : background : that is the answer reg . being personal.
You dont know me , but it is not a big problem , you schould only judging/giving comment regarding my opinion.

I know something(Not Much) about the Indonesian Culture , the people , how they live , relationship between Sundanese ,Jakartans? , Javanese , bataks, ambonese, balinese ,banten , minangkabaus ,menadonese ; chinese etc etc because I have relatives(family in law) and very very good friends.
And half of my live living in Indonesia ,born, go to school .
(the other half is in Holland).
And every 2 yrs in the past , and the last 5 yrs , every year playing tourist in indonesia.





Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 30-10-2005 15:15 Yogya-Bali wrote:

...


About Maluku you are right, the problems started with the so-called BBM. In Poso the same thing but then only the Bugis.

For Nusa Tenggara Timur it is quite a different thing. It has nothing to do with the RIS or the RMS, they are completely different from the West-Indonesians, even another race.
And they feel oppressed by the Javanese; not the people but the Javanese culture which is so prominent in the government and the authorities.

Talk with these people and then you will here what they think about the nowadays situation.

Did you know that on 17th of August most of the villages in Bali didnt want to celebrate Independence day?

Y-B : That is why I say It is difficult to explain the sociale structure/ the problems of indonesia to foreigners or a tourist ( 4 of 5 times roundtrip between medan and Mataram , sometimes to sulawesi).

Abt the differences between east indonesia and west indonesia is a fact , another suku , adat etc etc.
But they have make an appointment in the past : NKRI.
As you know amsterdam is not only white nowadays , we have more than 100
etnicgroups.(rotterdam ? , the hague ? )
But we are Amsterdammers , we must living with others in peace .
And try to be a good Nederlander or at least medelanders.
Talking abt. politics : true it is (very) sensitive , but among friends we can always talk freely.
And most of my friends (generation) are always saying We are One .
Abt : Indep.Days celeberation : IF true , it is very sad.
Not for Indonesia only but also for the people there.





Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
User
spacer line
 

Why is so hard to say the truth. Truth hurts, Fotograaf? Sidia? SGlange?
Even Sacha is much more honest.

What is a surprise if some group of Islam interpreted God's Words of "KILL/SLAY THE UNBELIEVER" as "KILL AND SLAY THE UNBELIEVER, INCLUDING THE CHRISTIANS?"

ISN'T IT WRITTEN IN THAT HOLY BOOK: SMITE THEIR NECKS?

Haven't I told you guys that everyone reading the BOOK has the possibility to be a terrorist??? How many proof do you need??? How many deaths will it take?

And don't ever dare blaming all the Indonesian Society. Don't YOU ever dare. There are a lot of good people in Indonesian society. And to blame others like Christians, HIndus, etc will not whitewash all you have done wrong.

Why is it hard to take responsibility, Indonesian moslems, that there's something wrong in Islam? I am not a dhimmi to say everything you guys (and Islamists) want to hear.
GOT IT, GUYS?


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

spacer line  

I wonder why whoever carried our the gross acts of cruelty and violence on the beautiful island of Sulawesi chose 3 young women who were Christians.
We live in a topsy turvy world. I do not jump to blame the most likely culprits.

There are people across the globe who have goals that they seek to reach by subversive methods including using other people to fire their shots. "Whatever it takes" tactics can have devastating consequences for naive people who can very easily become pawns.

Fundamentalist Islamic and Christian folk are getting a bad reputation. Whether they deserve it or not I am not sure but they can easily become pawns.

To seek to understand the mind set and sick psyche of people who condone and carry out such acts as the beheading of 3 young women is just too difficult.
If the goal of the people who instigated and carried out the killings is to create divisions in Indonesian society then the people of Sulawesi and other places need to be warned.

I am sorry for all the good citizens of Indonesia. From what I have learnt your current President is an astute and intelligent leader with an advanced capacity to understand the complexities of his nations people.


keepoh

searching
User
spacer line
 

Kathryn,

With all my respect, please don't be politically correct. We are talking about Islam Fundamentalists, why then you include Christians? There are onnly Islam Fundamentalists in Indonesia. Don't try to follow Bush and Blair. They are all dhimmis. They say Islam is a religion of peace. You know the complete sentence of the verse about humanity?

"Hai Children of Israel....if you kill a man than you kill mankind". So, is it for moslems? The verse is FOR THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. You let yourself fooled all the time. Why? Why the west become moslem apologists???

If you want to know more, please visit www.faithfreedom.org, where all the lies are unveiled.


Fundamentalist Islamic and Christian folk are getting a bad reputation. Whether they deserve it or not I am not sure but they can easily become pawns.


Pawns or not, they are here and there's no use in denying this.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

principe
User
spacer line
 

The perpetrators wore masks and were clad in Ninja black outfits. Possibly they did not speak during the slayings.

When Desa Soya (maluku) was attacked the same tactics were used. They turned out to be christian gang members (coker) killing their own (including the elder and the very young).

They were collaborating with Kopassus units for the purpose of keeping the sectarian violence on going. The real reason is anyones guess.

It takes training, discipline, and maye a lot of drugs to carry out these sayings in such a cold blooded way. Above all it takes experience in killing this way.

NArrowing in on the possible perpetrators in my opinion you may be close when you look at certain units in military trained environments.

TNI might need again another hot spot to keep the money flowing is just one way of looking at it. But any scenario or combination of it may be valid.

However the debate in this forum is getting several twists and looses its original and central focus.

Javanese kolonialism, religious intolerance, corruption etc start to infiltrate this debate.

I just would like to react on one of those debates. Somebody said (rephrased) that in the Koran you could find references to killing in the name of God. I agree and so does the Old Testament.

I also agree with the observation that in Indoneisa their is a clear (latent) hatred of many muslims with regard to non muslims, espescially christians and westerners. This is nothing new. Indonesian history is full of xenophic refernces.A recent study showed a more or less 50% hatered of muslims with regard to anything christian in Indonesia. That is in line with facts and occurences in the field regarding church closures and religiously motivated intimidations.

I wonder how such a survey will mirror itself in westerm European society when it comes to muslims and mosques in their respective neighbourhoods.
I remember quite some paint smearing on the walls of when the first mosque in a Dutch city was build. I remember plenty of verbal abuses as well.

I know for a fact that when a foreigner (often coloured) entered a room in wester european countries you could hear people think " their you have an immigrant". Nowadays you can hear them think "their you have an immigrant and a muslim"

In Indonesia you could hear similar prejudices when it comes to pig eating, liquor drinking immoral christian converting westerners etc.

And we can go on and on. But it strikes me though that Indonesians keep on being on the defensive when it comes to Muslims and Islam in general. As if they can do no wrong. Like Christians?westeners who think "only muslims can do such wrongs".

I have lived near a mosque (without a permit ofcourse) for many years. Most sermons were focussing on politics and I assure you that the remedies proposed were often in the shape of revenge, holy war and death......to the infidels (guess who those are)

I have yet to hear that in a christian surmon. Please record and tell me about it if it does occur though, if only to balance the universal traits of human beings on earth






sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 03:31 searching wrote:


Why is so hard to say the truth. Truth hurts, Fotograaf? Sidia? SGlange?
Even Sacha is much more honest.

a.What is a surprise if some group of Islam interpreted Gods Words of "KILL/SLAY THE UNBELIEVER" as "KILL AND SLAY THE UNBELIEVER, INCLUDING THE CHRISTIANS?"


b.Havent I told you guys that everyone reading the BOOK has the possibility to be a terrorist???

c.I am not a dhimmi to say everything you guys (and Islamists) want to hear.
GOT IT, GUYS?


Dear Searcher ,
1st Welcome to you , you are back again.Very nice.
a. some group ?
b. Not the Bible , you mean the other Book ?
And everyone (everyone ?) have the possibilities to be a terorist (terorist).
What about owners ?
It seem very (VERY) spooky to me.
c. of course you are not a dhimmi(?)

And I got yr messg.

And the West : why the west become moslem apologist ?
Why ?? . Yes , why ?? , Sidia cant give the answer .
Please answer him . Pse ??






Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
User
spacer line
 


[The perpetrators wore masks and were clad in Ninja black outfits. Possibly they did not speak during the slayings.

When Desa Soya (maluku) was attacked the same tactics were used. They turned out to be christian gang members (coker) killing their own (including the elder and the very young).

They were collaborating with Kopassus units for the purpose of keeping the sectarian violence on going. The real reason is anyones guess.


I don't take SABILI as a reliable resource. What is your resource? DUNIA ISLAM? the story is as ridiculous as the story that Israel was behind the 9/11.


just would like to react on one of those debates. Somebody said (rephrased) that in the Koran you could find references to killing in the name of God. I agree and so does the Old Testament.

I also agree with the observation that in Indoneisa their is a clear (latent) hatred of many muslims with regard to non muslims, espescially christians and westerners. This is nothing new. Indonesian history is full of xenophic refernces.A recent study showed a more or less 50% hatered of muslims with regard to anything christian in Indonesia. That is in line with facts and occurences in the field regarding church closures and religiously motivated intimidations.


Two wrong don't make one right, my friend. So Tu quoque is not your way to avoid from being responsible. The only thing you can say is that I MISQUOTE or THE PHRASE IS NOT IN QURAN. But it is. You are just another moslem or another Islam apologist. Welcome and join Bush and Blair.


I have lived near a mosque (without a permit ofcourse) for many years. Most sermons were focussing on politics and I assure you that the remedies proposed were often in the shape of revenge, holy war and death......to the infidels (guess who those are)

I have yet to hear that in a christian surmon. Please record and tell me about it if it does occur though, if only to balance the universal traits of human beings on earth


The only "hatred" sermon I've ever heard in a Church was by calling the Mosque to be "Onion Church". And I disliked the priest for saying that. But please, we are talking about ISLAM EXTREMISTS IN INDONESIA. Don't be out of topic.




Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

Jantje
User
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 03:31 searching wrote:
What is a surprise if some group of Islam interpreted Gods Words of "KILL/SLAY THE UNBELIEVER" as "KILL AND SLAY THE UNBELIEVER, INCLUDING THE CHRISTIANS?"

ISNT IT WRITTEN IN THAT HOLY BOOK: SMITE THEIR NECKS?

Havent I told you guys that everyone reading the BOOK has the possibility to be a terrorist??? How many proof do you need??? How many deaths will it take?



These are just a few lines from the "holy"books. Inspiring clerics with sick minds and the likes of Mohammed B. Emoticon: Nooo



sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 09:11 Jantje wrote:

...


These are just a few lines from the "holy"books. Inspiring clerics with sick minds and the likes of Mohammed B. Emoticon: Nooo


Maybe a few lines in A book or bookS. ?
We in Holland know who Mr . B is , but the Non Dutch ?

Searcher no 29 :
Christian is NOT an Unbeliever , they are children of the books (like the jews).
They believe in the same God as the Muslim.



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Jantje
User
spacer line
 

Ok then, for the non-Dutch: The Dutch celebrity, filmmaker Theo van Gogh, family of the famous Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh was brutaly slaughtered a year ago by a moslim extremist Mohammed B.
He must have been inspired by the "holy book's" fraze: Smite their necks.
The middle ages in 2004! Emoticon: Angry
This fraze could very well have appealed to the idiots that killed these innocent girls.



Fotograaf
User
spacer line
 

I totally agree with Principe.
True about this coker (cowok keren aka cool guys) gang in Ambon who attacked Soya atas. As I remembered this gang was mixed Kristen-Muslim with their leader beeing a Christian. They did their randomly killings for money, payed by....some 3th party. Up to this date nobody knows for sure by whom...Kopassus? Suharto clan?

This might also be the case in this latest attack. It's not wise to make assumptions on forehand.

Well written Principe! Emoticon: Yes! You could be a journalist.



sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 10:49 Fotograaf wrote:


Well written Principe! Emoticon: Yes! You could be a journalist.


Yes , he is well informed. See his other mssg : Dont cry for me indonesia.
Principe , thanks for yr contribution.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

principe
User
spacer line
 

To searching: I wonder if you really read what I wrote...

My sources in general are: the Jakarta Post, Suara Pembaruan, Tempo magazine, Republika, Media Indonesia, Kompas, Siwa Lima.
Television: Metro TV, ANTV, SCTV, RCTI, LaTV, TVG, TV7, BBC, CNN, RAI International, Deutche Welle, TV5
Internet:
http://www.detik.com
http://www.malra.org/posko/ (espescially regarding Maluku and Poso)
http://www.telegraaf.nl
http://www.nrc.nl
http://www.tempo.co.id

Sports:
La gazzetta dello Sport, VI
ESPN. STAR Sports,

Others:

street gossip. general public opinion in Jakarta and outside Jakarta.

but most of all my daily life experience in Indonesia and my common sense.

I am not a Journalist but a researcher cum business man with an Indonesian lawyer as my wife and as my biggest source of Indonesian inspirational justice.




principe
User
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 09:29 sidia wrote:

...


They believe in the same God as the Muslim.


Mr Sidia, this is partly true. This is only true when it comes to the God of the Old Testament The God of Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Daud (David).

When it comes to the God of the New Testament Muslims and Christians differ in opinion. The New Testament God is emboldened in the holy trinity which Muslims explicitly reject.




principe
User
spacer line
 


On 30-10-2005 11:24 papaya wrote:
I get sic of those cowardly attacks on Christians in Indonesia...... What the hell is wrong with you people? Why do you hate Christians, whites and Chinese people so much? Please tell me. Thanks Emoticon: Frustrated


I do not know for sure. Some psychology may come in hand but can be rejected just as fast.

It is just a psychology theory: The psychology ends with a natural fear of death and starts with common resentment. Every stage of the process in between like being singled out, looked upon, maginalized, aliented, threatened,become a minority, end up powerless, incomeless, losing basic needs adds to the basic fear of finally lossing ones control over life and in the end life itself.

So if you would ask by generalizing why Muslim majority Indonesians or European christian Majority hates "the other" you may try and fit the above chain of fear into your specific environmental profile.

No scientific certainty, just a thaught



searching
User
spacer line
 


My sources in general are: the Jakarta Post, Suara Pembaruan, Tempo magazine, Republika, Media Indonesia, Kompas, Siwa Lima.
Television: Metro TV, ANTV, SCTV, RCTI, LaTV, TVG, TV7, BBC, CNN, RAI International, Deutche Welle, TV5
Internet:
http://www.detik.com
http://www.malra.org/posko/ (espescially regarding Maluku and Poso)
http://www.telegraaf.nl
http://www.nrc.nl
http://www.tempo.co.id

Sports:
La gazzetta dello Sport, VI
ESPN. STAR Sports,


Funny, may be we don't read the same KOMPAS. Yesterday KOMPAS (31 Oct) that I read (in the first page) told me that the group of terrors in that area is not yet to find, that the peope there have lost trust to the POLICE.
The story also said that it was suspected the doers COME FROM OUTSIDE of the AREA.
You may check it. And where is your source, if I may ask?

And Mr. Detective, think with your brain WHY IT IS ALWAYS THE CHRISTIANS to be the victims. If those COKER really wants to fuel a riot, just kill MOSLEMS and surely there will be a riot and LASKAR JIHAD will surely take out their hidden ammunitions.

Sidia, I will only answer if you give me a genuine question, not a question you utter to do tuquoque or to reveal your inability to reason.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 01-11-2005 03:39 principe wrote:

...


Mr Sidia, this is partly true. This is only true when it comes to the God of the Old Testament The God of Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Daud (David).



Mr Principe
Faith is Faith .
And is a very very sensitive issue to discuss.
To me (personal) there is a no diff. between the God of israel (jews) , The God of Christian (the early jw.christians , other churchs , and later the Roman Catholic , the protestant etc etc) and the God of the Muslim.

My (personal) interpretation is :
a. the same basic/source : the childeren of Abraham .
b. monotheism , only one god (acc the O.T,NT . Al Quran)

Abt the christian :the only diff. between R.C.C. and P.C is the interpretation of the bible.
They have the same basic .
From Saulus to Rabbi J and Abraham .

see Matthew 4.10 :
For it is written : Worship the Lord your God , and serve him only.
see Matthew 5: 17-18 :
Dont think that I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets ---etc etc .






Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sidia
User
User icon of sidia
spacer line
 


On 01-11-2005 04:36 searching wrote:

...


Sidia, I will only answer if you give me a genuine question, not a question you utter to do tuquoque or to reveal your inability to reason.


Searching
Can you give me yr honest opinion about this text :
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them , bring them here and kill them in front of me .




Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

AnisJ
User
User icon of AnisJ
spacer line
 


On 31-10-2005 10:49 Fotograaf wrote:
I totally agree with Principe.
True about this coker (cowok keren aka cool guys) gang in Ambon who attacked Soya atas. As I remembered this gang was mixed Kristen-Muslim with their leader beeing a Christian. They did their randomly killings for money, payed by....some 3th party. Up to this date nobody knows for sure by whom...Kopassus? Suharto clan?

This might also be the case in this latest attack. Its not wise to make assumptions on forehand.

Well written Principe! Emoticon: Yes! You could be a journalist.


Salamat s.mua yth.,

Yes, ........ we must not forget to question ourselves who would benefit from these attacks: not ordinary christians and not ordinary islamists, but people who want this "crazy situation" still happens.
Members of the 'Coker' gang were forced to commit these attacks, if they do not do, they themselves would be attacked !!!
So who are these 'extremists' ???
I think it is also a method to 'shock' people in general, be it christians or islamists !!!
In LIbanon influential political leaders are being attacked, how come in INDOnesia they are not ??? "Why only ordinary people ???"



'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


You have to be logged in to post a message. You can login by clicking here.
If you do not have an account yet, you can register yourself here.



76,847,173 topic views - 234,929 posts - 13,697 topics - 25,672 members - last post @ 14-11-2019 19:32 CET

Created by indahnesia.com · feedback & contact · © 2000-2019
Other websites by indahnesia.com: ticketindonesia.info · kamus-online.com · indonesiepagina.nl · suvono.nl

125,699,287 pageviews Discover Indonesia Online at indahnesia.com