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Eight FPI members arrested for carrying sharp weapons
Eight members of the "Islam Defenders Front" (FPI) have been apprehended by West Jakarta police for carrying sharp weapons during a rally in front of the West Jakarta Police precinct on Tuesday. Some 150 FPI members were protesting the slow pace of investigations into a clash between their group and residents of the Kalijodo red-light district in West Jakarta last Sunday, in which four FPI members were injured.
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kiwimave
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When is the Indon government getting serious putting those wannabe-terrorists behinds bars??


Gracias. Sama sama

papaya
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Criminals, thats what they are! Emoticon: Angry


Happiness is not a destination, it's a Way of Living

Agung
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I thought the current Ramadan was a time for reflection and prayer. Not a time for carrying sharp weapons.

Islam defenders??? Emoticon: Smile Don’t make me laugh; they don’t know anything about this religion.

I agree with Kiwimave that these people are practicing to become terrorists. Stoping them is very important!




sidia
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I can can understand that an Ormas (organisasi masa) get her richt to demonstrate because they have democracy in indonesia.

But I am not agree about some methods en sometimes also with violence against others.

If someone or groups broke the law , they must be prosecuted.



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

aponto
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Dear Readers,
I have only one question about your msgges.Do you live in Indonesia?
As you know (I hope you do ),it's not fair to talk about daily life
in Indo if you don't live there.
Regards
Aponto



Agung
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Hi Aponto,
Currently I do not live there, but of course come there regularly. In principle I agree with your statement, but the practise is that when we are in Indonesia, usually we have to inform our Indonesian family about what is going on in the country. Living in a small village, they have a limited idea what’s going on, especially the kind of subjects we like to discuss on this forum.

I don’t think they know the FPI members were arrested… Or another daily life example: they found out that the price of Premium went up early this month and have no idea why this is the case.

But in general I agree that we shouldn’t write something, which suggests experience in that field, but is only imagination. If we write our opinion or imagination we should make that clear to the reader. Then, it’s no problem.

Greetings.
A.A.




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Dear Aponto,

I live in Indonesia and I think FPI is a criminal and terorizing organization that needs to be banned. They don't have any right to terorrize the people by using the name "Ummah"

Sidia,

I believe we should differentiate demonstrating and terorrizing, bro. They are "legal terorrists" and I wonder why our government close their eyes to them.

WJ




zieleffe
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Verdediging is de ruiter van kritiek--- *O* --,Het doel heiligt de middelen

sidia
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On 20-10-2005 11:28 johny251976 wrote:
They are "legal terorrists" and I wonder why our government close their eyes to them.

WJ


see my comment : If someone or group broke the law --- they must be prosecuted.
Are they legal or are they illegal and what is the defenition of terrorist .?
Because some people in Indonesia think they need them to counter the corruption( KKN ), the sell out of Indonesia , and to defend the Indonesian standard / values etc.

I think the govt know what the problem is maybe because of political reason they tolerated them.
But this is only the humble opinion of a golongan pengecap.

Agung :
it is not only the matter of fairness but also ignorancy .


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

aponto
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Dear All,
I do appreciate your contributions in this ftp discuss.
But you know,in moslim countries,these days,like in mine,if a very small group with different interpretations and incorrect actions,are called terrorists.
sorry ya ,but I find it hard to join this populistic opinion.
In every country ,there are groups ya,who think differently.
I don't think it will affect daily life here in dramatic way.
Akseptasi
Sekali lagi,terimah kasih di muka berita.
Aponto



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Dear Sidia,

you said:
"see my comment : If someone or group broke the law --- they must be prosecuted.
Are they legal or are they illegal and what is the defenition of terrorist .?
Because some people in Indonesia think they need them to counter the corruption( KKN ), the sell out of Indonesia , and to defend the Indonesian standard / values etc."

What I mean by my comments is that they love to terrorize other people. For example:
(1) Not that I like night life, But they have no right to come there with sticks to beat the people there. Are they police? NO. Brother Sid, we have laws and regulation here, and they BROKE it.
(2) They busted and terrorized Churches and the Christians.

If you notice, even the liberalists like Gus Dur has been fed up with their action. And of course is the minority here.

Dear Aponto,

you said:
"In every country ,there are groups ya,who think differently.
I don't think it will affect daily life here in dramatic way."

But FPI doesn't only think differently. They do physical harm and it affects daily life OF THE MINORITY HERE and the parties they treat AS ENEMY.
I think you are not an Indonesian, aren't you? Are you a Malaysian?

WJ



Agung
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what is the definition of terrorist .?
In my view:
People who use violence against others or who threaten to use it or advise others to use violence.
And, are guided by a political view, religious idea or whatever, but not by primarily by direct personal gain.
And, there is no clear relation between terrorist and victim or behaviour of the victim.

From this I would say the behaviour of the FPI falls in the category terrorists.



sidia
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Is yr defenition only regarding f.e the FPI (or other Muslim) ?

Because , there are many groups , even so called civilced countries did the same or even worst.

The I.C.C at the hague holland must prosecuted them.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Agung
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Hi Sidia,
no, I tried to make a definition that should apply in general. Anyone who has a better idea: please help me!

Yes, the conclusion must be that quite a few "civilized" counties have at least something to explain in the Hague.

Why do you think the USA does not like the I.C.C. very much?




aponto
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Dear Johny 25..,


If you don't mind but I give no further comment concerning this topic.
No hard feelings and it's obvious that we have different views on this issue.
Oh by the way ,I almost forgot to answer your question :
""I think you are not an Indonesian, aren't you? Are you a Malaysian?""
To be short : I'm prowd to be an Indonesian and if you like to know where I was born ,raised ,etc.,please let me know,I will be happy to give you more info.
Sekian
Aponto




sidia
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On 21-10-2005 05:06 johny251976 wrote:

Are they police? NO.
WJ


NO , I agree.
But some times they act as police , in case the police failed.
And the common people (poor) ask them for help .
For example someone with money opened a rumah gembira (disko annex karaoke , panti pijat +++ etc ) and WITHOUT permit .As you know it bhappened almost everywhere.
The authorities dont help the people , and guess who came in action ??
What happened at regio Puncak ?

For the dutchies : what can happened if in the province where people lives with strong faith and someone opened a club /whorehouse for example in Staphorst : open 7 days a week (incl. Sunday).



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

kiwimave
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Hey Sidia, just ask to yourself: Do you rather want a place where they drink, gamble or have paid sex in your area or a pesantran where they possibly create hatred, terrorists and murderers?

You can say many bad things about rumah gembira, but at least if you leave them alone they will leave you alone, they don't try to kill you because you have a different opinion or religion


Gracias. Sama sama

AnisJ
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On 19-10-2005 18:45 aponto wrote:
Dear Readers,
I have only one question about your msgges.Do you live in Indonesia?
As you know (I hope you do ),its not fair to talk about daily life
in Indo if you dont live there.
Regards
Aponto


Aponto yth.,

With Democracy, there is criticism, whether you like it or not .......


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
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On 21-10-2005 12:02 Agung wrote:

...
In my view:
People who use violence against others or who threaten to use it or advise others to use violence.
And, are guided by a political view, religious idea or whatever, but not by primarily by direct personal gain.
And, there is no clear relation between terrorist and victim or behaviour of the victim.

From this I would say the behaviour of the FPI falls in the category terrorists.


I think your analyse(s) are incomplete, what about people who are misled/brainwashed by others, mostly 'masterminds' or who are forced to do so (terrorizing others) ....
I think some 'powerful groups inside INDOnesia' use these people for their purpose(s) to 'camouflage' their position and to draw away the overall opinion by 'the man in the street', from the reel social problems of INDOnesia today .....


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

aponto
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On 22-10-2005 14:44 AnisJ wrote:

...


Aponto yth.,

With Democracy, there is criticism, whether you like it or not .......

.......................................................................................................................................
AnisJ yth.

It's not a matter of liking or not.
I even think that criticism belongs to life.
But we also have the freedom to end a discussion ,whether it is virtual or
in real life.Never ending discussions might affect an atmosphere.
I think it's not worth it.
Aponto



AnisJ
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Aponto yth.,

Why is it 'a never ending discussion' and why stop it, it just had started ....... Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused Emoticon: Confused
Like they say: Living means pleasant thing(s) but .... also unpleasant !!!


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

aponto
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Anisj yth,

cukup begini.

Aponto



sidia
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On 22-10-2005 12:55 kiwimave wrote:
Hey Sidia, just ask to yourself: Do you rather want a place where they drink, gamble or have paid sex in your area or a pesantran where they possibly create hatred, terrorists and murderers?

You can say many bad things about rumah gembira, but at least if you leave them alone they will leave you alone, they dont try to kill you because you have a different opinion or religion


Kiwim. :
Are you serious ask to Sidia , or is it a rhetorical question ?
A normal person will say NO , No att all . Not rumah gembira and Not a Criminal Pesantren ( Pesantren = school).
Sidia is normal (mostly) , the answer is big NO.

b.Are jou coming from another planet or from a copuntry without law , rules ?
I am living in Holland , a small but nice beautiful country in West Europe , close to the North Sea.
They have a strange phenomena , so called GEDOGEN.
It means they have rules, law etc , but they donot enforce it if people broke the rules.
And they say about them self , we have big tolerancy.
But if the situation get wrong , SERIOUSLY WRONG , then they begin to act .
And say : DE BEUK ERIN.



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

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Dear Sid,

Still they are not police and POLICE NEVER ASKS THEM TO.
May be if you think about the nite club then you can justify their wrongdoing.
Let's talk more about the Church persecution. FPI and AGAP CLOSED FORCEFULLY at least 23 churches last month.
And in addition, just recently (I think around 11 October), they busted A HOUSE where some CATHOLICS were doing the prayer! (I think it's a Novena Prayer).
And sorry, Sid, we are talking about our beloved Indonesia, not other country. So I don't see a connection with what happened in Netherland.

Dear Aponto,
I have my reason to ask if you are an Indonesian.


Sekali lagi,terimah kasih di muka berita.
.

This is not a good structured Indonesian language.
So I think of several explanation about that:
1) an Indonesian tried to make a joke by using a very bad Indonesian language.
2) an Indonesian who is not here since may be a little kid.
3) a Malaysian (because they have somewhat different term, so I assume also structure).
4) a foreigner who happens to know Indonesian.
So, I ask you the third question.

And no, I don't want to probe to your own life, so relax, I will not ask where you come from or else.

WJ






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