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sidia
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2004

Penduduk Jawa Barat 39.000.000 , JATENG , 36.000.000, Jatim 37.000.000.

36 + 37 = 73 juta .(app.) Total 241 juta (kurang lebih) .

Herr Sascha you are correct about Soeharto , and his friends. and other corruptors.
But your other stories is bullshit.
Abt the Indonesian debts : pse check it in several sites.
a. Debts of the State
b. private debts of the cukongs/conglomerats (they are now wanted, but is difficult to prosecuted them because they are fled ) .




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sidia
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Herr Sascha ,
I don't care about your opinion regarding Germany.
I am only giving comments to people who drop their opinion without any knowledge.

Abt : Timor Leste , it is closed , they are free and happy now .
It is not good to annexed Timor Timur (1975 ?) , but that is another time , another reason/politik . The Ind. Gov. can do that with the aprovement / cooperation of USA and have annexed TIMTIM , because no comunist in their backyard.You can get information abt. the beginning , the history.
Even Prof .Dr Kooyman (former Dutch minister ) have make some reports abt that periode for the United Nations.
Yes , the TIMTIM adventure is a mistake. It is wrong.
Abt Aceh ? : the warlords are coming home , they become Indonesian citizen again As part of the NKRI. Pse try to get some information abt the GAM people , who they are , what is the reason that they will separate from Indonesia.
And come back with your new / proper information.
Maybe I can learn from it.



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sascha
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I was refering to public debt:
"Government funds that should be used to help re-build economic stability in Indonesia, and support the poor, are instead being used to repay foreign creditors. Before 1997, 40% of the government's budget was spent on human development. Since 1997 that spending has been cut by a third. Today, domestic and external debt service expenditure uses up 41% of the budget, and 61% of tax revenues."
So much for indonesia developing:
"The World Bank estimates that between 1997 and 1998 the real wages of agricultural workers fell by as much as 40%, and those in urban areas fell by 34%. Since 1997, it is said, 39 million Indonesians have lost their jobs."
source www.insideindonesia.org/edit69/pettifor4.htm

About the numbers u still assume everyone in jawa barat is sundanese. Emoticon: Stupid
About Aceh there is always 2 sides of the medal, but u trust too much ur side imo. When there is nearly no press allowed in aceh, how do u know much about these "warlords"??
read urself about GAM en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Aceh_Movement



sascha
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Agung
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Hi Folks,

And if we use Jeroen aka the official indonesian statistic from 2000 javanese made up approx. 43% of the population then. People living on Java even over 60%.


If I add up all people living on Jawa in 2000 I come to:113.253.828

113.253.828 / 206.264.595 * 100 % = 54.9 %

But, not all people living on Jawa are jawanese and, even more in numbers, on all the other islands many Jawanese are living, due to the transmigrasi polisy in the past. So, I guess it's far to say Jawanese are the majority.

What is wrong about nationalism
According to me nationalism is one of the sources of evil when love for your own country leads to hate towards other countries. Emoticon: Frustrated

I myself do not love or hate countries. I only love or hate people or opinions, but it is not important where these people or opinions come from. Emoticon: I love it




sascha
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I didnt use the 113 million because like u said not everyone on jawa is jawanese. Nice comment so.
Greetz



sidia
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Herr Sascha ,
Now you are coming with sources of yr info.
I am agree (read my early post) that something rotten is happened.
And as I can read in yr source there are certain people(golongan tertentu) are acting wrong.
And sure there are victims , even by one victim is a barbaric act .
But you cannot blame a whole nation.
About Aceh , there are other source , with information who the warlord are.Wikipedia site is a tourist site .Without political backgroundinformation.
abt . the worldbank site : it is true , the poor people get more poor.
That is after the KRISMON , all indonesian have lost money (except the so called cukongs/conglomerats , they have rob indonesia.)

Abt : javanese ethnic : there are not so much pure javanese .They are Indonesian now . Even IF you say Penduduk JATENG and Penduduk Jatim are "pure"javanese . they are still 30,03 %.

If an Indonesian from Bandung is living in Ambon , is he a colonial ?
If an Westie living/working in former Ost Deutschland , is he a colonial ?
Or an Amsterdammer living in brabant / friesland (prov of holland) , is he a colonial ?


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sascha
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Sorry sidia colonial was the wrong word, i just wanted to describe the transmigrsi polisy, but was out of fiting words Emoticon: Wink
Im not blaming the whole nation, i know most indonesians have other problems(struggle to survive with 2$ a day) then to search for the truth and justice of what happened in the past.
Please give me ur sources for aceh. And i will judge on them too. Also there is another movement besides GAM that that struggled for autonomie(not separation) peacefully -> SIRA a students organisation. U also have bad things to say about them??
I like some things about indonesia, i love some people in indonesia, still some things are simply wrong there. But we should mess up our days by discussing too much about it Emoticon: Wink
Even i enjoy a fine debate. Emoticon: Puh!




sidia
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To Jeroen :
I give some comments to some post , but it begin too sensitive.
I have found some site and very disturbing to me , and I think it is not good to place it in Indahnesia , because this site is a tourist site with indonesian friends .To tell their vacation, experience etc etc.
It is not good if this site are change to a political forum.

( dus geen politieke bagger in deze forum)




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sidia
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On 27-09-2005 15:21 sascha wrote:
Please give me ur sources for aceh. And i will judge on them too. Also there is another movement besides GAM that that struggled for autonomie(not separation) peacefully -> SIRA a students organisation. U also have bad things to say about them??

Herr Sascha :
You will judge on them too?
I have bad things to say about SIRA ?
I dont have heard about them untill now.



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sascha
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On 27-09-2005 15:51 sidia wrote:

...

Herr Sascha :
You will judge on them too?



Wikipedia site is a tourist site .Without political backgroundinformation.

Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Puh!



I dont have heard about them untill now.

www.newint.org/issue318/truth.htm
in the last part of the article. Its also critical towards the rebels.
Let's close the case here. Emoticon: Talk to the hand



sidia
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O.K.



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Jeroen
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offtopic removed. Sidia, I'll show you in the test-topic.



AnisJ
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Now we know about INDOnesian law , what kind of info the Dutch government has on Islam extremism in the Netherlands. .................


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

hobo1
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Hey, Indoneisia is different. - and I say, "viva la difference". In Singapore, drugs get you a bad whipping, rape gets you death. The US has the highest number of people in jail (per capital to the population)...most people in prison for drugs dealing. Some countries have the death penalty, some do not. But one things is absolutely clear - Indonesia does not drugs. If you are caught with drugs, even with a little mary jane, you are in a heap of trouble.

How can any foreigner say the laws of any country are unfair? It is all in the eyes of the of the citizens of the country to decide that - not a foreigner looking in. Foreigners are only guests in Indonesia. Its just like an fast internet connection or reliable electricity - if you want those things, stay home. If you want to do drugs stay home. This is a different culture and they have different priorities - you either live with it or stay away. Emoticon: Party!


Hideaway Bungalow in Kuta Lombok - check my homepage


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