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Bintaro
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You folks probably know the story about a young pretty aussie woman who is caught in Bali with 4kg marihuana in her surfbag.
In Australia there is a big discuss whether Schapelle is guilty or not guilty. Many Australians thinks she is innocent and dont deserve a such heavy sentence...20years in a filthy indonesian prison. What the hell is 4kg!!! It wont hurt anybody!

This is incredible...if you see the story of Basyir (the leader of JI and responsible of the Bali Bom who killed more than 200 people) only gets 30months in prison and yesterday the indo government reduced his sentence by 4,5months (because celebration of 60years indonesia)..than I dont know what kind of country is Indonesia??? They want to fight terrorism..but they reduce the sentence of a very dangerous men!!!!

I think Indonesian Law sucks!



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Dear Bintaro,

I believe that 4 kg marihuana is a crime.
I also don't like the fact that Basyir (which in my opinion seems to have near link to terrorism) got very light sentence. But the problem is there was not much evidence to link him directly with the terrorism (and may be because of the help of Pengacara Muslim Indonesia).
Indonesa needs to improve its judicative system, but I think that's the reason of what you think injustice in Indonesian Law. No law system in the world is perfect anyway. Emoticon: Nooo

WJ



londoh
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To Bintaro,

Actually comparing with other cases Schapelle (Young and pretty, what does that have to do with the case ??) the sentence was quite light. And what has her case to do with Basyir ? It is not Indonesian law that sucks but you. You don't posess any material in both cases to prove what is right and what is wrong, just an opinion based on nothing.

Regards.



Hitami
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Every drugs smugglers or couriers are unguilty Emoticon: Confused



sascha
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Nah, dont think bintaro meant they are not guilty, but its only some marihuana. Its nothing that will kill people. Compared to Basyir its a rather light crime for a logic thinking person Emoticon: Puh!
And Basyir is a radical preacher, sympathizing with terrorist acts and jemeah islamia.
Its maybe a bit harsh to say Indonesian law sucks, but something wrong with it for sure IMO Emoticon: Wink



leveni
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Bintaro if you think Indonesian courts are no good look at this article about Chika Honda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chika_Honda
You'll see that Australian courts are also no good.

As for sentencing Australia is also guilty of unfair sentencing.

What I'm saying is that both Australia and Indonesia are the same when it comes to the law.


Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers. --- Socrates

Agung
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Dear Bintaro,
when she brought 4 kg of marihuana it is obvious that she's not going to use all of that during her holiday. So, she's selling it and causing other people to become or to stay addicted. This is a serious crime and Indonesia has every right to put a serious punishment on such a crime.

The question if she's guilty or not has nothing to do with the law. A law merely says: if you do this... then you can get that punishment….

Determining if she really did it (or e.g. other people put it in her bag) is matter for the police and court of justice.

I'm also not happy that Basyir got a light sentence, but this issue is in fact an indication that the Indonesian justice system is working. What I mean is the sentence was caused by the limited amount of prove . In countries where the justice systems sucks, prove usually not required. As far as I am concerned they can make Sateh Babi from him, but not without prove. Emoticon: Smile





AnisJ
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Andre(?)/Bintaro yth.,

I think you have a point and indeed the INDOnesian law-system, sure has strange measurements for justice, but also for people from rich and influential people like Tommy Suharto, his father of course and other people in the 'Suharto era', with blood on their hands ......
I these two cases that you gave an example from a foreigner and an INDOnesian clergyman, I think you must consider that some judges first think of their positions .....
"If you cannot fight Islam extremism, why not join them ....." Emoticon: Cry a bit, at least)
If you are a familyman with a few children, why take risks ......
Besides, after a long time of "Suharto dictatorism", INDOnesia will not change in such a short time in a democratic country.

Anyway Andre, very good you have brought up these differences in INDonesian law !!!

Greets ..... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sascha
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Hey... one thing i still dont really understand Emoticon: Wink Why on earth would u import cannabis to indonesia??? I would think they have enough there, for lower price and of better quality. Seems as with the oil, indonesia has to import drugs now. Emoticon: Devil and that where adequate supply of drugs is so importand to prevent social unrest Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Stupid



sidia
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Quote:
But the problem is there was not much evidence to link him directly with the terrorism (and may be because of the help of Pengacara Muslim Indonesia).
Indonesa needs to improve its judicative system, but I think thats the reason of what you think injustice in Indonesian Law. No law system in the world is perfect anyway.

Bravo Johny ,
there are always people that make mistakes and donot understand the differentce between Law , the people, ore between islam and some muslim .
You can blame them for their blindness/ignorance




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sidia
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Sorry : you cannot blame them ------


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pbywater
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Is it just me or do alot of australian people take drugs to indonesia?



sascha
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No its just u and this schapelle girl, usually australians buy drugs much cheaper there. If controls at airports wouldnt be that tight much more would take drugs from indonesia. Emoticon: Devil
I was not aware yet that australia uses the outback to grow huge plantations of marihuana or coca and made its way to the top of drug exporting countries. Emoticon: Wink
Enough indonesians who produce and consume drugs, they just dont get the publicity they deserve for their job Emoticon: Shiny
If i just see the drug history of me gf, that really puts me to shame. Emoticon: Nice



Agung
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Indonesian law sucks? Emoticon: Angry

When it comes to drugs, maybe not so much.

But, many other cases: Definitely Yes!

My impression is that there are laws in Indonesia were made to be broken. There only purpose is to allow the collection of money.

For example, if an Indonesia family has guests from abroad they'll have to report them to the police, if not they can get a fine of a couple of million Rp. By the way, the Indonesian word "report" means, "pay money".

I'm sure there are many more examples especially in the field of licenses. The part of the law that organizes that allows for lots of corruption. As a matter of fact, I'm quite sure many of these laws were intentionally made to support corruption. Emoticon: Angry

I guess we all know the situation that you want something from the Indonesian government. All required info is on form A, but they also want you to bring form B, C & D. If one of the last few forms is missing this can always be compensated with a couple of juta Rp.

The fact that the law continues to asks for forms B, C & D etc. is prove that this law sucks. Emoticon: Angry



londoh
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On 23-08-2005 16:30 Agung wrote:
Indonesian law sucks? Emoticon: Angry

For example, if an Indonesia family has guests from abroad theyll have to report them to the police, if not they can get a fine of a couple of million Rp. By the way, the Indonesian word "report" means, "pay money".

Im sure there are many more examples especially in the field of licenses. The part of the law that organizes that allows for lots of corruption. As a matter of fact, Im quite sure many of these laws were intentionally made to support corruption. Emoticon: Angry

Emoticon: Angry


I think Indonesian laws are made to boost your paranoia. Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Shiny Reporting to the police ? I call one (my friend Emoticon: Nice ) by HP, 2 hours later the necesairy form is brought to my house. I pay for this because that's a good service, same with imigrasi, just call "my other friend" Emoticon: Nice

One pays for a service, some call that corruption, as it hurts their bankaccount. If you need a passport in the Netherlands in one day how much does that cost ? There is nothing wrong in giving something extra for a service, seen the low salaries. But maybe you are a Belanda pelit that wants everything quickly done like the civil servants work in the Netherlands .....Belastingkantoor..... Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Shiny Emoticon: Shiny

If one stays in Indonesia one has to adapt to the culture and don't tell what is right or wrong, that was before 1942 !!!!! Misselijk gedrag

regards

BL



Ruben
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Again..there is a young pretty australian model, Michelle Leslie, caught by the Indonesian Police in Bali in case of importing drugs. How stupid are you to import drugs into Indonesia????? If you are a model you dont this for the money..so whats the reason. I think Australians are the dumbest nation of the world!



the_gee
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corruption equals culture?? That seems to me like an unhealthy statement. The resources lost due to corruption of goverment agencies is extremily high in indonesia, this is one of the reasons why Indonesia is noit doing so well like for instance thailand or some of the other south east asian tigers.




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All you really have to remember about the law in Indonesia is that Indonesia is the most corrupt country on the planet , and that's a fact.

If you have money , you can get away with murder.
If you don't have enough to bribe your way out of a jail sentence , then you are going inside for as long as they want you.

She was caught with drugs - that's a fact , so she is guilty.
The other guy - i dunno about that , but if he is mixed up in bombings he should receive the death sentence like other indonesian terrorists.
He obviously had enough money to pay his way out , but she did'nt.

You are trying to debate with a country who still won't punish the most corrupt dictator there has ever been in Asia , he stole trillions of dollars from the people over many years , but still the Indonesians take care of him?!?!?
If it was anywhere else he would have been lynched by an angry mob years ago!

Indonesia is the only country in the world that has an army which has never been in armed combat , the only people they have ever killed are Indonesians!!!!! Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Wink Emoticon: Shiny



sascha
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Actually its only the 5th most corrupt country in this world. And its not the only country where the ex dictator gets away with stealing all the money.
That Basyir gets away with this mild sentence has more to do with too much influence of religion on politics and justice.
And the i think the indoesian army killed some malaysians when they tried to invade there long long ago.




Agung
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Right! There are quite a few countries that are much worse. Also, in Indonesia, most of the time, they'll only take your money. In other corrupt countries they also take your life.... Emoticon: Shiny


most corrupt dictator there has ever been in Asia

We'll, how about Pol Pot, Sadam H. and currently our friends in Burma, Iran, N-Korea..... It's not that easy to be the number one bad guy in asia. Emoticon: Shiny





sascha
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As for human rights n killing of opposition indonesia has no clean vest either. And as it is tradition in Asia u keep silence about it or tell lies(best in school books to indoctrinate the children).
Examples: Japan-WW2(china,korea atrocities), Indonesia-1965,1992,1998(communists,timur,chinese)
burma, bangladesh, etc.




sascha
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And Suharto was once the richest of the dictators
"The examples of billionaire dictators whose wealth outlasted their regimes are many. Indonesia's former-President Suharto was once widely said to have siphoned off more than $10 billion during 33 years of his rule. In 1997 Forbes estimated his net worth at $16 billion, but the holdings of Suharto and his family are said to have lost much of their value in recent years, mainly because of the devaluation of the rupiah during the Asian financial crisis."
-Forbes magazine





kiwimave
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In my opinion, Indonesias Justice Department is becoming a little bit "middle-eastern style" hypocrite by trying to tackle certain "crimes" like gambling, prostitution and modern variants of Islam. Apparently religious idiots like Abu Bakar Ba'ashir have a certain influence on politics in Indonesia (esp. in parties like PPP, Crescent Star etc).

The tough punishment given to drug trafficking is in my opinion a little too harsh but widespread in South East Asia, so not typically Indonesian or Islamic. I can imagine it's hard for Ozzies to understand that the terrorists of the Bali Bombings get a less severe punishment then Schapelle Corby or Michelle. I hope Indonesia realises that its much more important to have a good relation with Australia in the future then trying to stop a bunch of stupid drug mules. I'm sure you will always find idiots who will traffic drugs in- and outside the country no matter what punishment they will get, so I question the effectivity of those hard punishments. It will do Indonesia more harm than good.


Gracias. Sama sama

sidia
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On 22-09-2005 16:16 sascha wrote:
Examples: Indonesia-1965,1992,1998(communists,timur,chinese)


AGREE there are something bad happened in may 1998 but :
Please read also http:// www.usdoj.gov/usao/vae/arch..4/jakartaPR.pdf

Article about thousand of so called chinees refugees in amerika , with their horor story .
And that is the beginning for other horor story in the internet.
The same tactics of the so called refugees in europe , ask the dutch abt." the nep vluchtelingen ".


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

sidia
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[quote] On 22-09-2005 19:22 kiwimave wrote:

. I hope Indonesia realises that its much more important to have a good relation with Australia in the future then trying to stop a bunch of stupid drug mules. ]

What kind of relation.?
If the Indonesian can stand as a nation(NKRI) they don't need the kangaroos .
What can australia give to indonesia ?


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/


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