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Dutch to apologise to Indonesia for 'police actions'
Two Dutch church groups have applauded the "historic decision" by Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot to attend celebrations of the 60th anniversary of Indonesia's Independence on Wednesday. The Kerkinactie and ICCO groups also called on Bot to use the opportunity to apologise to the Indonesian people for the two bloody military campaigns the Dutch military carried out in a bid to regain control of the former colony following World War II.
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sidia
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Why apologise for the so called P.A 1 and P.A 2 ,
or there are something wrong happened there ?


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Agung
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There are a few things the Dutch should apologise for:
- During this war far too many people have died. On one occasion in Sulawesi around 40.000 people were killed. This was not the result of "regular fighting", but just a massacre. The responsible people were never punished. If something like that would happen today the Dutch would be one of the first to say that the killers should be prosecuted by the international court of justice.
- Not respecting the will of the Indonesian people to be independent during this period and waiting too long to respect the “proklamasi kemerdekaan”.

On the other hand the Indonesian government also has something to apologise for to the Dutch, although this is not likely to happen:
- Just after WW II when the Japanese capitulated around 23.500 (the number is very unclear) foreigners (mostly Dutch) were killed by Indonesians, before the country was "liberated from the Japanese" by the English army.
- After Indonesia really got independent in December 1949 the Dutch and Indonesians who helped the Dutch during the previous war were treated badly by the Indonesian government.

So, both Belanda and Indonesia have done quite a few things to make life terrible for each other in that period. In this, Indonesia has the excuse that it was colonised and Belanda has the excuse that just after WW II the Dutch government didn’t work well, which led to stupid decisions.





londoh
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Menir Agung Yth.,

Can you please mention a reliable source for "your" 40.000 deads on Sulawesi.

regards

Londoh





Agung
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Dear Londoh,
as you probably already know, there is no reliable source for this number. This is the number that in Indonesia has been put on this event. Perhaps it's an exaggerated number, but the fact remains that it was really bad and something the Dutch should make an apology for.

As a matter a fact the same applies for the number of foreighners killed after WW II. Also for this there is no reliable source for the actual number, but the fact remains that it was awful and something Indonesia should apologise for, but will probably never do. You know that is not the strongest point of the Ind. government.



AnisJ
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B. Lon yth.,

Silahkan bapa Lon: 'He who has no sin throw the stone first .....'
There had been on both sides ferocities .......
After 60 years I think we do not need to start a cometition, who was the cruellist !!!
At the moment it is no use 'crying over spilled milk' .... I think the country need a new vision to start a new era ....
We must and probably will not forget those dead people; but what about the time that in INDOnesia +/- 2 million people had been killed, accused of communistic ideas ....... most of them on false accusations !!!
Just because 'cold war' was at its peak !!!

Greets ..... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

londoh
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The killings in Sulawesi have been investigated by the Dutch after many complaints (de commissie-Enthoven and onderzoekscommissie Van Rij-Stam) and they counted abt. 5100 victims. Indonesian numbers are based on rumors. It was not only Westerling who commanded he troops, other commanders were Veenendaal, Vermeulen and IJzereef, who were not so clever as Westerling, but used his methods. Westerling was a very good soldier and recieved "carte blache" from the Commander of the Troops in N.E.I. General Spoor, the latter is the one who is responsible.

There are also quite precise numbers about how many foreigners were killed during WW II, but I am too lazy to look them up just for a forum. I also don't like to write in English for Dutch readers. Anyway at the start of the war in NEI many Australians were killed as they were much braver than the KNIL soldiers, who at first sight of the Japanese at a far distance, dropped their bicycles and stood waiting with their hands in the air.

Every August there is always many talking about excuses, in my opinion nonsense, most of the actors in this WW II are dead and buried. My mother who is an English WW II veteran,nowadays talk about WW II as something "funny" that happened long time ago. Her brains are still 100%. So how do people have to think who were born after WW II? And anyway since WW II has ended, every minute there was somewhere a war going on. If I listen to some people in the West they actually are waiting for WW III coming, against “the muslims”. Because Indonesia is celebrating Hari Merdeka, I won’t mention all the victims who fell under the killing hands of their own countrymen. I have to laugh so much when Indonesians are talking about “zaman kompeni”, they even blame corruption on the Dutch. They better start to clean up their own house before it’s too late, if it isn’t already too late.


Regards, Lon



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Bot is not going to apologise, because there IS nothing to apologise for! . The police actions were law and order measures to stop the anarchie ,chaos and killings of the post war bersiap period. The relentless killings of the so called "rampokkers" and tni that had plundered the Japanese and Dutch weapon depots had to be stopped. You cannot say sorry for taking responsibility, you can only regret the killings.



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therefore the title of the topic is completeky wrong and misleading.There is one thing Bot is for sure not going to do and that is apologise! please correct the title to "some church groups want Dutch to apologise" or so.




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