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dear people here,
I have a big problem, I come from holland and living with a kitas in indonesia now for 1,5 years.
I maried a muslim woman here on dec last year.
before that I became muslim, have a good job, house, everything needed for a good family, but now my wife is pregnant from me and want to divorce.
now I would like to find out what this will have for consequences for the rights I have for my baby after it is born.
If I agree with this divorce, what are my rights?
I'm afraid that I will loose my baby and she can do what she wants.
Do I have to agree with it?
If she offers to sign papers that will give me rights to my baby, will that have any meaning after divorce?
I'm trying to find info about it on the internet, but it all is very confusing to me...
In short......
What would you advice me to do in a situation like this.....
I still love my wife very much and I think it will be ok after some time alone... but she disagrees.....
Thank you for your help





londoh
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It is very unusual for an Indonesian wife to ask her husband for divorce, it are more often the men who divorce, but rather just stay with another woman without divorcing. Your story seems very strange to me. But I think you can start with refusing her to divorce you, or she must have a very good reason. But with bribes or influence from family, you are lost . A difficult situation for a foreigner in Indonesia to get your legal rights.

I wish you strenght, wisdom and good luck. Emoticon: Smile

Londoh






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Thank you londoh for this quick reply....

Do you have more details about what the family of her can do??
can I have a relationship with another woman without loosing my rights?
I mean if I sleep with another woman can she use that to get a divorce? like in almost all other countries.....



londoh
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Hi,

I gave you a quick reply as a sort of mental support. I live in Indonesia myself and know as a foreigner one can stand very alone in a situation like this. >>>>Edit

Londoh

I see you have edited your posting, if you have slept with another woman, she is very, very jealous of course. And not such a clever move, if you love your wife and she is pregnant. This makes everything different, If a man makes mistakes he pays for that, in this case dearly.



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thank you for the support...
And ... No.... I never beat her up..... (sometimes even the other way arround... still have the bite marks on my arms)...... and never sleep around.

I will just wait what will happen....

As I understand she can not do much, Luckely I have some good connections here with my work for the bribe stuff......

I will just do nothing and see what she will try,,,,

Thank you for your help...

By the way. where do you come from?? and how long are you in indonesia now?? maried??




londoh
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Just wait what happens.

I come from Amsterdam, and 14 years in Indo. Married ?? Too old Emoticon: Shiny

Regards



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Dan kan ik dus net zo goed nederlands praten......
Ik kom uit voorschoten en later eindhoven.....

bedankt voor je hulp....

Joery

Mijn mail is dutchguy1000Removed to prevent your adress from being spammed. Click this to go to the user profile.yahoo.com.....

groetjes



Jeroen
Administrator
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But you opened a topic in English in an English subforum. So please keep it English. Emoticon: Smile



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Sorry Jeroen...... I did not say anything special just now.....
If you have anything to add to my question, please do... I can use all the help I can get...

Thank you



Jeroen
Administrator
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Unfortunately for you I don't have any experience with it, so I will leave it to the people who have, directly or indirectly or those who know about your rights.



Hitami
User
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Where did u met ur wife ?
She is in pregnent, are u sure you'rs ?
Do u have have a girl friend ?
Did she ever talk to u about living in Netherlands ?
Did she ever asked something that u din't gave her ?

remarks:
When she is in pregnent, u cant divorce in Indonesia.









londoh
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This might be practical Emoticon: Smile

http://www.lbh-apik.or.id/uu-perk.htm

UNDANG-UNDANG REPUBLIK INDONESIA
NOMOR 1 TAHUN 1974 TENTANG P E R K A W I N A N




JohanN
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Something to read:
http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html
and read it, especially the part about the nationality of the children.
Regards, Johan



Begin de details te vergeten

Robert70
User
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Dutchguy1000,
When I read your questions and your respons, I ask myself if you are knowing what you are doing. You try to save your mariage and want to know what the rules are for the baby. I think you want to keep the baby, want to see it, etc. But WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SLEEPING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. I'm a man to, I also want to f... the wife next door. But you are maried, baby is coming and you are talking about sleeping with another woman. Don't listen to your d... but if you realy love her, save your mariage. Hurry!!!!!!!!!

Succes
Di roberto



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dear people,
thank you for your replies.

Robert...... I'm not thinking about sleeping with another woman now.... I'm thinking in the further futer.

I would nothing more then safe my mariage now, but it seems that my wife only wants all the control..... over money, what I do, she wants me to do exactly whats she wants.
I start to find out why, she thinks that if I do something she maybe dont like, it is automaticly because I want to hurt her....
Its a long story and if you want I'm happy to share it with you....
Believe me.... As long as I know her I don;t go to bars, don't sleep around, I only work and be with her........ but even that is not enough..... I give her laptop, she can go to her friends, have a driver if she wants, etc, etc.....
Its never enough and if there is a minor thing she don't like, she threatens me with divorce or that I will never see my baby again.....
Sorry to say..... but she's a spoiled brat I start to find out.

The only reason I talked about another girl is for the futer......
What after some time... maybe a year or so I find another girl i love......
What is the consequence then???....

Can she use that to make me not see my baby anymore???

I think that I'm of the more monogamic people around here, seeing what the most people from my work do, not even having trouble....

And Hitami:
Yes.... I'm sure its mine.....
I don't have another girlfriend...... many of my friends have anothr girlfriend when there maried, but I don't believe in that.
We talk about holland but we agree that I will not go there as long she is pregnant and she need her parents.
And ... yes... I give her anything in my power to give her, but she wants me to give her everyting she needs, all the attention, even my work is to much for her sometimes......

I have a fairly good salary, and as long as I know her I think we spend 3/4 on what she wants, and the rest for living..... I think the only thing I bought special the last 1,5 years has been a new phone...... just a simple one.....
don't get me wrong.... its ok with me, but if she keeps on freaking out over evrery new little shit thing she don't like it is to much some time......





Robert70
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Okey dutchgguy1000,
It's clear for me. You are talking about the future, when maybe things had gone wrong. You know the rules in Holland. The child usely stays with the mother, and the father may pick up the child sometimes. This is by law, but ALSO IN HOLLAND, a lot of mothers say, you don't pick up the child. Many fathers don't see their child, and if they go to court or not they never will see. This is in Holland also a problem. I don't have to tell you anything from rules, law and court in Indonesia. I think you must prepare yourself, that if you divorce, you never see the child anymore.
I'm sorry I say like this, but your wife looks like see is spoiled. You said I buy this, I buy that, we do what she wants, etc. Love and carying is not like that. At the moment you had both to enjoy the coming off the baby, not threaten to go away, or to force things. I think your wife is from the lowerclass. Important for her she is 'maried' with bule and she has money. She can show her family, friends etc, she get money. What happaned if she is away? She still has money? If she don't, she will be in big shit. You know that a divorched woman with a child is worthless, except when she has money.
If there is NO love and NO carying for eachother (don't think about money), fight for it. If both don't fight ===== divorce. Otherwise next day, next month, next year, etc the problems will come back. But I think your wive is spoiled, and maybe she likes somebody else. I think you are a to good man. Dutchguy, there ARE MANY GOOOOOOOOOD WOMAN.




Iris8
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Hi Dutchguy,

Maybe some women input might give a bit of insight. I am Dutch and married to an Indonesian men.
I have been pregnant twice and both times I wanted to divorce the guy who did that to me!!! Don't forget that women who are pregnant are walking hormone bombs. It is very common pregnant women are agressive, crying, whining and giving you a hard time. Believe me, if you could experience it you could totally understand.
It is also the period a woman feels most vunerable and depending. Even more reason to revolt. It is shocking to experience all the changes in body and all the feelings of insecureness. She needs you now more than ever.

A child in Indonesia gets the nationality of the father, meaning that your wife might fear to loose her child if you ever leave her, because it will have your nationality. So, her treat that you might never see your child is maybe more a treat to herself.
I can't jugde your relationship, maybe you are right and your wife is spoiled. I personally think it is okay to spoil her when she is carrying your baby and if you love her you also don't mind.
The treat of divorce is never nice, but is this really serious?

Maybe talking to her, explaining your worry and care for her will settle things.
becoming parents is one of the most stressful periods in your life.
I hope you can both solve your differences.
Accept that your wife has gone through a caracter change. In about a year and a half she will become her normal self again.

Good luck, talk, care and hang in there.




Robert70
User
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Hi Iris

I'm happy you logged in. Woman are more sensitive to questions. Men usely look abstract, they say, one and one is two, but woman can say, no, one and one is three. I hope you can help the dutchguy with your sensitive side. You know how men are.

Dutchguy succes



Ramayan
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Is your wife a Sumatran native, Minang or from an other island than Java?



Veer01
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Iris,are you sure the baby gets dutch nationality?I heard it will get the one in which country it's born.And true...wife's get pretty inpredictable when pregnant.Time will tell how she will be in a bit of time. Emoticon:



Robert70
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Nationality
If the mariage is official registrated in Holland, the child will have the nationality from his father, so dutch. So, when this is not a official mariage for the dutch government, you can two things.
First, get a official registration of the mariage in Holland.
The second change for the dutch nationality is that the father must tell the dutch government that the baby that will born is his baby. In dutch it means 'erkennen'. THIS MUST BE DONE BEFORE BIRTH. Otherwise the baby get for the dutch the nationality from his mother.
I think you are only maried for the indonesian'church', so you have to do step two. Listen, when the baby is born and you where not maried, you get big shit for giving your son/daughter the dutch nationality.



JohanN
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Iris, and others, I┤m a man and I certainly do not understand. For Debby and me, the two times Debby was pregnant were the most beautiful times of our lives unitl now. No stress at all actually. But hey....I┤m a very good friend/husband Emoticon: I love it Emoticon: Clown and we did not have the problems mentioned by Dutchguy.
Dutchguy, did you read the article on the expat website already?
Groetjes, Johan


Begin de details te vergeten

harto
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dear dutchy,
it is obvious, she had her reasons to marry you, but certainly it was not love from her side, because it is abnormal for an indonesian moslim-girl. Also her whole family is backing her, so it would be better to accept her decission, just as you accepted her wishes to marry you. N.B. you didnot marry her, she married you and now she divorces you !
I am sure you have already invested in Indonesia, in a house or a business, that is the big problem now. Normaly foreign-males never get a residence-permit (females however do), only if you invested in an indonesian-based company that you have to control. This is independent from a marriage.
But as a foreigner, and more worse a foreigner from Holland, even if converted to islam, you can forget your rights. Rights are in your case "a priori" meant to protect indonesian citizans, from foreigners. In civil and economic processes between indonesians and foreigners at the court the last 13 years,
not one time a proces was really won by a foreigner. Most processes were lost by the foreigner or in the best scenario kept alive for years and years, without a decissian taken. If you as a foreigner have money (house or business) you are exposed and not one judge will give you right.
so be practical, find yourself the best lawyer you can find and try to find a compromise as soon as possible and have it legalized at the court, notary and your embassy. Important, you take initiative and behave as you don't bother at all and as you are prepared to leave indonesia as soon as possible. your business (or the stocks), or your house you have officialy (via notary) to hand
over to a perusaan with somebody you can trust, in charge (best case a not-indonesian). Good would be too, to offer your ex the divorce on her behalve as soon as possible ( with well described your rights) against a lumb sum, which should be leglized from a notary. Don't forget to just think about it, that you could be, NOT the father of the child, for very strange a divorce from a pregnant wife. If you want, I can bring you in touch with 2 dutch males who also were married to indonesians, who had become babies, who were darker ! ? than the mother ! ?
in practise will quick settlements at a divorce cause the less hurts between both of you and will give you more chances to play a father-role (even if you are not) , in stead of waiting years and years during a process, with worse contacts. also remember, that as soon as the divorce is registered, or the proces for divorce is started in indonesia, your wife is not allowed to start a proces in holland, which would be far more worse for you and your whole future, so don't be naive, she doesnot want you, get lost of her as soon as possible , before she really hurts you for the next 25 years (that's probably all lawyers will advice you). if you are a poor man and get the divorce as soon as possible, before the baby comes, you will always have a next future in indonesia, with another woman. but if you are rich and exposed, watch out. even with a process it is not sure you can enter indonesia again, without expecting a big financial claim.
NB don't go to holland with her in this stadium, please divorce !

for practical or juristic advice, write! harto Emoticon: Yawn Emoticon: Yawn




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The story I read sounds strange to me. Dutch and Indonesian people are like brothers and sisters to each other, so you would expect that in a trial it would be fair. There are only very few people in indonesia that have problems with the past. (unfortunately also the current Indonsian minister of Justice) Themost people count there blessings and like to know more about the historic banding.



harto
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obviously you are not integrated in indonesian society, nor you speak bahasa indonesia very well, nor have you been at the primary school, smp and sma in indonesia, otherwise you wouldnot talk so naive. your philosofy is what westerners would like to think they are. forget it man, indonesians still hevenot forgotten. stronger, the older people were rather moderate about history with belanda, most of the younger therefore almost hate belanda and what they did in 350 years. it is this what is taught in schools and koranschools nowadays, my friend. so you must be blind and deaf if you havenot registrated this untill now. and about justice, the mighty and rich indoneians a priory have or become right, but please notice in indonesian system,a foreigner is always less than the poorest indonesian ! you should simply try it and you will quickly find out,
but be carefull I warned you, harto Emoticon: Stupid




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