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Albert
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On 01-09-2005 18:58 londoh wrote:
To whom it may concern,

Wassalamaleikum

I hate all these fuckers who are pissing against Islam, because they badly need enemies to feel good. Many of them dont even know what "religion" means.


Don't forget those who are pissing to not Islam religions www.marokko.nl .
Nobody is a saint.
There is no religion on Eath who has no blood on its hands.

Solution;
End all religions start a new one called,
How to become one with God and how to live Healthy and in Peace for as long as you wish and with everybody.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

londoh
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What has Marokko to do with Indonesia ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Emoticon: Confused



Albert
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On 01-09-2005 19:55 Albert wrote:

...


Dont forget those who are pissing to not Islam religions www.marokko.nl .


Let me explain;
Islam pissis on non Islamic religons.
Non Islamic religions pissing on Islam.



Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

londoh
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Your brains need some service, oil or whatever.

I think you will walk against a concrete green wall in Indonesia with your intolerant fascist ideas. Emoticon: Stupid Emoticon: Stupid



sascha
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londoh maybe ur english sucks and u cant understand albert?!?! what fascist idea are u referring to?
Islam is not always the victim of bad unbelievers, thats what they think for far to long already.
better all stay cool. Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Shiny


p.s. sidia i just thought ur post was rather offensive against searching, dont know about ur english either Emoticon: Wink so yes i spoke in his favour

p.s. dont take all said too serious u know my sickness Emoticon: Stupid



Albert
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On 01-09-2005 20:49 londoh wrote:
Your brains need some service, oil or whatever.

I think you will walk against a concrete green wall in Indonesia with your intolerant fascist ideas. Emoticon: Stupid Emoticon: Stupid


I think you have put your head to much into the sand man or your coins.
You should wake up. You don't know what is happening in the world or even indonesia concerning religions.

I also think you totaly don't know the meaning of intolerant fascist ideas.
Further more you also did not understood a thing of what I wrote.

Keep on dreaming man, I hope you don't wake up in a nightmare..

I hope peace always follows you on your path where ever you go.

Doei. Emoticon: Bye bye


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

sascha
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by the way there are no good or bad or evil religions
there are just peaceful and thinking people and dumb, stupid and really really dump and sometimes sick people. its all about people not about this or that god Emoticon: Nice Emoticon: Wink



Albert
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On 01-09-2005 21:14 sascha wrote:
by the way there are no good or bad or evil religions
there are just peaceful and thinking people and dumb, stupid and really really dump and sometimes sick people. its all about people not about this or that god Emoticon: Nice Emoticon: Wink


Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes! Emoticon: Yes!


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

sascha
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ah yes i believe in FSM www.venganza.org/ Emoticon: Yes!
may all of u get touched by his noodly appendage and become pirates ARRRRR! Emoticon: Laugh out loud



londoh
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Every anti muslim should refused to get into Indonesia, just stay in Belanda.

Anti get a big green CAP in their passport, Anti-Islam, send them on a single trip to Neraka, cut off your balls first, with a primitive stone knive. Burn their eyes out.

Make a lake of vomit where they can swim forever. Or a sungai darah, renang you kafir

Londoh



Albert
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quote] On 01-09-2005 20:49 londoh wrote:


Intolerant fascist ideas. [/quote]


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

londoh
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BTW These headaches you are having and describing do you write these in Belanda or in Indonesia?

I feel flabbergasted, it is so typical Dutch and kampungan.

Londoh



sidia
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Sascha ,
I will try to explain my points.
I am not offensive against Searcher , only asking for further explanation.
Because what is the purpose of Searcher to make some statements and mentioning Islam et etc and an certain arab individual.
If I am in offensive than I will write differently.
Now I am only asking for explanation.

I give an example what can happened if a true believer (read : a fundamentalist) reading the first and second chapter of the bible .(Genesis)
It is possible that he believe that a woman inferior to the man , that God create the world (universum ?) in 6 days.
That is the problem if people are talking / discussing about religion and faith.
It becomes worse if people cannot make differences between faith, religion , individu and politics.
Anyway I wish him succes in his search for truth.

a brother

(according the bible and according the science the same ancestors from africa)






Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Albert
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On 01-09-2005 22:16 londoh wrote:
BTW These headaches you are having and describing do you write these in Belanda or in Indonesia?

I feel flabbergasted, it is so typical Dutch and kampungan.

Londoh


Have better things to do.

Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Laugh out loud


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

londoh
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On 01-09-2005 22:33 Albert wrote:

...


Have better things to do.

Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Bye bye Emoticon: Laugh out loud Emoticon: Laugh out loud


producing blaster for bak sampah



sidia
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Broeder Albert ,
About maroko .nl.
The marokans dutch or dutch marokans , the second , and third generation.
Born, and raised in holland . Yes some of them have some ideas.( For the non dutch members: they are dutch boys , with dutch educations , speak dutch , mostly with dutch nationality)
The problems is in the first place not religious , only socialproblems.
But after one eleven they become the kambing hitam .

About Sidia he like sate kambing (not to much) and couscous.


Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Albert
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On 01-09-2005 22:42 sidia wrote:
Broeder Albert ,
The problems is in the first place not religious , only socialproblems.


I agree with that, but just wanted to show that all sides are doing wrong.
As well as Western religions and non Western religions.
But with religions I do not mean the religion itself but the people who carry that religion.
Like what Sasha already mentioned.

It is a pitty that there is a guy in this forum who still not willing to understand my point of view and thinks I am discriminating. It is better to ignore him. Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up! Emoticon: Shut up!


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

sascha
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maybe its age-stubborness Emoticon: Devil Emoticon: Cooool



searching
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Back again after a long search.

Sidia
What I mean is no religion prescribes the treatment to unbeliever as harsh as Islam. I have told you that most Moslems I met are nice people. But I doubt they will stay nice when they read what they should do to the unbelievers.
If I am not mistaken, the term "unbeliever" is used to describe "people who doesn't believe in the Almighty Allah swt and Mohammed as His Prophet."
Correct me if I am wrong.
All the other teaching, Christian, Buddhist, Confusianism, Hindu, etc said: "Do to others what you want others do to you." It's the Golden Rule, the basic formula of humanity. For the believers of those Teachings can make comments. This I find is lacking in Islam.
Islam said in the earlier version "your religion is yours and my religion is mine." Yet, the verse has been edited (I forgot the proper term for it) with the harsher verses after the hijrah to Medinah - to unbeliever. That's what I want to counter, because so many times I hear about the pameo that 'Islam is the religion of peace." The hadists are ever worse.
But you are right. You are my brother in humanity.

Londoh
you can say all the **** you want, but back up your accusation or complaints with proof. For people like you, I have no need to be polite. Let me tell you one thing. I dislike Bush and since you are Christian, you can tell him to **** off. But I am sure, he will not be able to say 'Alleluia" or quote verses in his Holy Books concerning it. The war in Iraq is led by greed. Got it? But I also dislike the mujahids who blew themselves among the innocent civiliants and kidnapped innocent people. This people, on the other hand, has something to say or quote. I hope you have a brain to think of that.

Sacha
Thanks. Please read www.faithfreedom.org for further reading. At least this site is not religion based, so I hope this site is more relevant for truth searching.

Albert
In hadists, Prophet Mohammed has collections of swords, and he even nicknamed the swords.


Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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Searching,
Agree if you say The Golden Rule is the basic formula for humanity.
But if you want to know what the Bible (Old en New Testament) say about believer or not believer , please read the Bible (1) carefully.
Also the Veda (2)of the Hindu's.
Confucianism is not a religion .

Of course you must seen it in the context and the time.
And not letterly . (NOT- L.)

About the site (faithsomething) , I can only laughing , it is a big joke.
Because I think it's american and maybe from the newcon vision.("fundamentalist " Emoticon: Wink .
The same level like some of the opposite sites . Only for. the narrow minded.
Sorry , ha ha ha .

( 1) see :Mathew 15.26
Math 9.9 , , M4 : 19-22
Math 11 : 20-24
Math 12 : 1-6
etc etc

(2.) Atharva Veda IV : 22: 7
Sama Veda II IX , III 8
AtharvaVeda XIX , 28: 4-10
Jedjare Veda 27.2 .
etc etc .



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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Sidia,

Let me clarify you on your points. I dislike you for always try to do 'red herring' (you didn't say that the verses I mentioned are bad, but rather you then accused another teaching --> if the other is wrong, doesn't mean that you are rignt):
(1) The owner of the site is an Iranian and ex-moslem. If you accuse that he's an american without proof, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion. But to be sure, he is not in Arabic countries, because the apostates there will be killed.
(2) Are those verses telling the follower of Hindu and Christian to kill the unbelievers to both teachings? Or to evoke terror? (please mention the verses you quoted).
(3) If a teaching has followers, like confusianism, it's a religion.
(4) How to see the context, tell me. For me, kill/slay the unbelievers mean kill the kaf'r (the unbeliever in the Almighty God and the Prophet). Does it has any implicit meaning that I don't know?



Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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Dear Searcher , my brother in humanity.

I am very sad that you dislike me.Why , o why ?
Because I am asking some explanation regarding your opinion ?
You have a judgement about islam , comparin with other religious , quoting some verses uit de Kor'an , mentioning an arab individual , a cowboy and even the swords of Mohamad.

I try to discus and have a dialoque with you , because you make your points/opinion public.And you are searching for truth.
I am not qualified , only an simple and not educated man.

1. Abt the cowboy : I think he is quoting Mathew with his statement in the beginning of the so called War Agains ----/ Enduring freedom .
"Those that are not with us are again us. " = Those who are with me is against me .

2. abt some verses in the Bible or Veda . You must read it .
But NOT LETTERLY , because we are living in 21 century , weleducated and NOT primitive people like our ancestors .
BTW do you have read the verses ?
I am only give you a hint . And I dont say it is a Bad verse or Good verse . Is up to the individual reader.

O.K. I 'll make easier for you.
a. Heritage in Islam.
Man get 2 times than a woman.
If you are picking and judge the verse , you 'll judge : It is not fair .
But you ( we) must read and seen it in the time , the context , the purpose etc etc.

b. Another example , verses from the bible .
Mathew 10 : 34 - 36
34 .Do not suppose that I have come bring peace to the earth.I didnot come bring peace , but a sword.
35.For I have come to ----
* a man against his father
* a daughter agains her mother et, etc.

WHAT can happened if you pick up that verse and read it LETTERLY. ?
Without asking the message , the context et etc.

Yes , it is a long way to go to find the truth (or your truth ? ) , but you can try to read and come with proper information before making a statement and make it public.

Sidia (very sad).






Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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Sidia, don't be sad.
I told you that I dislike the way you do 'redherring' and I even explain what I mean. I don't know if you understand or not. I don't dislike you as a fellow human.
You better read my questions/asking:
1. I ask you to fully quote the verses in those Holy Books.
2. Are those verses told their followers to kill the "unbelievers?"
3. Does the expression "slay/kill the unbeliever" in Quran has implicit meaning that means other "like love the unbeliever"?
The question is important for I am discussing about the Quran and the teaching and you keep coming back to Christian and Hindu teaching. If you are a Christian or a Hindu, that's fine. But if not, then you are not honest, quoting other teaching without you really know it.
4. The "cowboy" name is Ali Sina. And he quoted directly from Quran and Hadits, and not from other books. Have you tried to refute what he stated?

The time, the context - I never thought that justice is that relative. So you can say "Do to others what you want them to do to you", but in other context you can say "Do to others, but be prepared so they cannot do that things back to you."






Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org

sidia
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Brother Searcher ,

1. You are asking me for fully quote .
Maybe I can help you if you need food to live or survive , maybe I can give you , but I cannot and wil not put it in your mouth.
You are the searcher , I can only give you a hint .
This is also a short and quick reply.

2. If someone live 1000 or maybe 2000 years ago and a "true believer "and heard or read about the verses , what can be happened ??
Answer is maybe YES.
But we are living in the 21 century , mostly of us are educated and not narrow minded and not reading the books en understanding it LETTERLY.
We have Internet , Google , you can also read the bible , the qur'an , even the veda.
If you are realy searching for the truth , please don't be lazy , read it , and then discuss it with qualified people.Not with Sidia.
Sidia give only a comments because you are the first one who mentioned and comparing with other religions .
Read yr own post carrefully 05092005 - 11.25 , and my post 05092005 -15.02 (more than 3,5 hour later).
abt time and context : it is difference between 1000 , 2000 or 500 year ago and 2005 A.D.

Sidia (still sad and now hurt).




Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

searching
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Sidia,

1) As I read them, they don't say "Kill the unbelievers (of the religion)" but may be I misread them so I want to know where you got the idea that they told the followers to kill unbelievers.
As I have quoted An Nissa for you, then do me a favor for quoting that as well to discuss, but only after you answer my questions.

2) You don't even answer my question about "kill/slay the unbelievers" in Quran at all. I told you that if it had an implicit (not letterly) understanding, please state the unletterly understanding.

3) If you see my quotation of some verses (only some) which I think very harsh, then please answer your interpretation on it.

4) About context. Kill/slay the unbelievers then and now --> does it change? how it change? Killing is the same. The definition of unbelievers doesn't change as well.

5) The problem is, Sidia, the verses in Quran, in our century, is used by Osama Bin Laden, and his colleagues to terrorize everywhere. And there are some verses about heaven for the 'jihadis'. 72 beautiful houris. That motivates the suicide bombers. The combination of them are what you see now. WTC, Bali Bombing, etc, etc. and how about the killing of Theo Van Gogh.

I don't know why are you sad with my questioning. I don't attact you personally, eventough I am irritated by your effort to not answering my questions, but trying to move the topic to other religions.
I will not force you to adopt my thinking. I only ask you to think outside the box.
May be I hurt you again and again, as you complain, if so, then I think that's no point to discuss it with you.

If other religion'/other teachings promote hates too, I think the teachings should be eradicated as well. Like Nazi, KKK, the cults like in Japan and USA. And of course Islam. Better to live without religion than being told to kill for religion. If Christian teaching promotes hate too, why hold it? But doesn't mean that I want Islam teaching to stay, Sidia. Islam is dangerous for humanity.



Find out the real face of Islam, read www. faithfreedom.org


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