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AnisJ
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Dear all/Sel. S.mua yth.,

With "waterheaded-countries" I mean countries, where lots of big industries and governmental services are concentrated in their capital cities.
In Europe, like probably elsewhere in the world, there are some fairly good examples of "waterhead-countries" like France with Paris and England with London.
As I recall Great London is as vast as the Dutch province of Utrecht.
If one look at INDOnesian Jakarta, I wonder whether it is also the case; look at the growth of a neighbouring city like Bekasi.
'What is the importance of former cities like Jokjakarta/Surakarta/and others ..."
"What kind of role do other big cities in INDOnesia play economicly ..... ???"

"Is it time for INDOnesia to rethink the main position and strategic position of Jakarta, as a city ???"

If there will be a big Asian war, the nowadays situation of a big city like Jakarta is funerable .... it will take one big missile/rocket tot destry a vital part of this country.

Greets .... Anis.





'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

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it would be very good for Indonesia if it gave the various islands and regions more authonomy and future independence. Then you can spend a lot of money on rebuilding the economy and stability in stead of local warfare and corruption.

I would suggest Java, bali and a part of Sumatra as one state. Atjeh as a seperate state. Lombok/subawa/flores/timor ; Irian Jaya ; the Molukken ; sulawesi ; Kalimantan.

Coörporation must be the keyword, in stead of occupation.



AnisJ
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Bl.hnd.f.h yth.,

Right on brother, now you're talking !!!
But .... most INDOnesians want to stay with Ibu Pertiwi and her Panca Sila !!!!
Close to mum and jangan bikin ribut because life is already that difficult !!!
Of course we can always bermain topeng there are somany in the Javanese shadowplay.

Greets ... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sidia
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Dear Friends :
abt: most Indonesians want ---------------
Anis named it . Thank you very much Anis .Thank you.
And that is democracy . According the western democracy : one man ,one vote .Otherwise it will be DemosCrazy.



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hobo1
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No doubt that Java, and Jakarta in particular, is the center of many important industries. This is due, primary simply because it was on the main trade routes and attracted some of the earliest civilizations influenced by traders. However, we can see that a large country (and Indonesia has the 4 largest population), is a great advantage in the world today. The US, China, India and Russia (and Indonesia) have distinct advantages because of their size. Labor is China’s greatest resource, but Indonesia has raw materials and labor to offer. Jakarta’s federal government has already enacted a program to decentralize power to the Provinces. This program allows local officials to compete for tourism and foreign investment. In the past Jakarta has been the center of activity because everything needed the approval from Jakarta. That is not the case now. A major company can gain approvals from the provincial governments. But this program is new and is still in its infancy.

To split up Indonesia would only cause increased conflict between the small “mini-countries”. They cannot all afford a military to protect themselves. Having different natural resources and different capacities would surely give the advantage to some areas and away from others. East Timor today is an example of a sad mistake – a “country” that is totally dependent of foreign aid with no prospects for improvement in sight. It is just a little country lost somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. Jealousies would arise and the historic warfare between kingdoms will rise from the grave again.
Hobo


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AnisJ
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Sidia yth.,

Hé what's up doc ???
"Why are you so much fixed on Panca Sila ???"
"What kind of mask/topeng do you prefer of wayang kulit ???
Sidia there is a story of a rich fat man riding a horse; that rich fat man is complaining about the lazyness of the horse.
But the horse said: "..... you are an easy talker, I am the horse, that have to carry your weight ....."
'It is easy to state your rights when you are privileged , but what about the suppressed ones ...... on the other end of the string???"
Besides uptill now there are many manipulations with the elections, as you know, it is more an equivalent of the american elections: the more money you have, the more you can manipulate ....., whilst the need of ordinary people are more basic needs, like work , good scholing for their children on a payable base, etc. ....
By the way "Money talks" is an American expression !!!

Sampai disini saja .... Anis.



'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

AnisJ
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Hobo yth.,

I am able to follow your logic line , but ... everything is concentrated on the Java island though, besides Java as the most populated island seems very much dependent on agriculture, whilst what in 'colonial times' is called the 'buitengewesten' deliver more and more the 'minerals' like Papua .....
Besides uptill now INDOnesia is far from homogeneous as a country, there
are many separatistic issues: Aceh, Kalimantan, Moluccas and Papua.

Greets ... Anis




'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

krukcor
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Well, really it wouldn't be a good thing to split up Indonesia in several smaller countries. I've been travelling a lot in the eastern part of Indonesia, a.o. Papua, Maluku, Sulawesi, Nusa Tenggara Timur, and noticed that most of these areas are depending on other islands. Some of these islands have nothing else to offer than an agrarian live for its inhabitants. How would you build any modern industry in areas like Maluku and NTT with all these islands? Infrastructure, transportation, communication, etc. How will these islands capable of competing with bigger islands with a larger amount of inhabitants?
We can see the sad results already from Timor Leste; completely depending on other countries and therefore already lost its sovereignty before it even could start as a nation.
On the other hand it is also true that Jawa heavily leans on the wealth of other islands. But still the other islands are also depending on Jawa. Jawa needs Papua but also Papua needs Jawa, and so on and on. Otonomi daerah is not functioning yet because of the highly corrupted civil servants and local governments. Probably the most important is the equal division of the nations wealth among the several islands; not separatist movements like GAM, OPM or RMS which only harms its inhabitants more than it brings them any profit, now and in the future.



AnisJ
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Krukcor yth.,

Have you ever heard about federalism ???
"It is succesful in many countries, like Germany, for instance".

Greets .... Anis


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

krukcor
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Well, the first steps are made towards federalism, the so-called Otonomi Daerah, and the results are not hopeful so far cause of the egoism of the local authorities. The provinces NTT and NTB are already the victim of it because they are not capable of generating income on their own. They simply don't have any resources or industry to generate any money. So for some provinces this Otonomi is positive (resource-rich regions) and for some negative.



krukcor
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Talking about Jakarta as a funerable city, yes that is true. But luckily some cities are growing to become more important than they were before. But it's inhabitants have to possess the right mentality to support their city growing economically.
Like for example Makasar, Semarang, Surabaya which inhabitants do have a business mentality cause of the fact that they are already for ages trading cities.
But forget Yogyakarta; the citizens have too much a feudal mentality. Same as Surakarta.



hobo1
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Technically, the United States is a federalist country, ie, where the powers are endowed to the central government by the States. Honestly, the States have lost power and the Federal government has gained power - today it is difficult to really apply any organizational name. After Autonomy (Otonomi), it looks very similar to the jumbled government structure of the USA.

I think it is prudent to just leave the status quo remain in place for a few decades - people are just now adjusting to the leap from autocracy to democracy in the last 7 years. In the mean time, riots will occur and blood will flow all over nation. Don't forget that the US had a bloody Civil War some 75 years after the formation of the government. To think that everything is concentrated in Jawa and will remain so is naive. Already new opportunities are ripe for the picking on many other islands.

If Indonesia is ever to become an economic power in Asia, it will need the land, the people and the resources of the other islands. In fact, I think you might be surprised how much each of the islands depend on each other now. That's a two-way street and includes Jawa. When some things look like they never will change is exactly when things start changing.


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AnisJ
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Dear all/S.lm s.mua,

All the previous feed-back is before the agreement of Aceh recently !!!
I wonder what will be visible and change INDOnesian internal politics after this Acehian agreement ???
Will this be a step towards a federal gouvermental system ???
What will be the reaction(s) of other parts in INDOnesia, nowadays ???
What will be the future of INDOnesia, despite Panca Sila , what will change the Musya Warah system ???
"What is INDOnesian democracy (Jaman Bahru style) ???"

Sampai ketemu lagi ..... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'

sidia
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Still the NKRI.
Indonesian democracy is one man one vote.
It is possible to buy some votes(maybe millions) but no one can buy all the votes.
See transition from Mega to SBY .
That is democracy.


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AnisJ
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Sidia yth.,

Can we talk about 'democracy INDOnesian style' when there is an influencial
oligarchy class; moreover mostly Javanese ..... conected with a rich chinese oligarchy class ......
Like in the 'Suharto era', for instance ...... what do you think of them; or are you looking away about their influence ???
The problem in INDOnesia is that people like you are fixed on 'Panca Sila', as if the world would not exist if there is no 'P.S' !!!
INDOnesia is not Java !!!
INDOnesians as a nation do not exist ..... please do not have Javanese illussions !!!!
"Do you know what this is called: ..... ethnocentrism .
But what do you think is INDOnesia a "waterhead-country" ???

Sampai ketemu lagi ..... Anis.


'Ahu kura ahia, mansia nia'


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