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Yogya-Bali
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On 18-10-2005 16:48 sidia wrote:

...


And what about the other kind of relations between a foreigner and an indonesian like f.e, friendship , business etc etc .??



Same situation more or less. If you understand each other on a same level then communication will go much easier, in friendship, business, relations (and that doesn't have to do much about culture).



Yogya-Bali
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On 18-10-2005 18:13 aponto wrote:

So I just want to say that there should be a law(which will be unreal ,I know)which should protect asian women from foreigners who have certain intentions.
There are a lot of sad examples of foreigners who are/stay here,just for one purpose.


But who protects the foreigners from Asian women who have certain intentions? Allthough quite a number of foreigners are marrying Asian women with a negative intention, the opposite is probably worse. All the horror-stories from foreigners who are cheated by their partner and/or her/his relatives and lost all or at least a lot of money. I don't think the Asian women need protection; they are clever and strong enough (ofcourse some excepted). But in the above mentioned situation I will still side with the Asian part cause this foreigner has probably imposed his/her ideas and his culture on the relationship. So, own mistake ("eigen schuld, dikke bult" Emoticon: Wink



sidia
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On 19-10-2005 05:58 Yogya-Bali wrote:

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Same situation more or less. If you understand each other on a same level then communication will go much easier, in friendship, business, relations (and that doesnt have to do much about culture).


In marriagerelationship love (true love & respect ) are the most important.
And when can you say it is worth to love and live with her/him ?
Not in the first years , mostly at the end of your both lives with your 2 C , childerens and Cucu's . Despite the troubles , you are happy with each others.

Abt people with "certain intention" it could be happened from both sides but the numbers are not much.
Most of them are normal mixedcouples.
It depends on personal situations.(Indonesian say : Tergantung Lingkungannya Mas )

That is why I dont agree with your number (90%) in another topics.
Now I can understand the 90% , because it is abt yr clients , and yr clients are coming you not for socialvisits , they are coming because they have problems.
And also only yr clients and mixed couple Ambon-Belanda , and Indo-Belanda.
I am sure that the other mixed coupels in holland are happy with each others .
Maybe in Holland or also in Indonesia.That is why I think that yr 90% is invalid , because you have extrapolate it to the whole nation in holland and in indonesia.

About the Culture , in my opinion is also important , because it will give problems if one of the couple is ethnocentris .



Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Yogya-Bali
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These figures I put on a few days ago, are not my numbers. I also got them from the newspapers and was quite surprised. It is reasonable that you can put some doubts about these figures but it says a lot (allthough not everything).
About ethnocentric, yes that is the most horrible brake in an (un)equal relation.



sidia
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Yes the 90% is from one of the Nwpapers , a catolic nwpapers somewhere in the dutch rimboe or from the Telegraaf of the expats in Indonesia.
You have also an opinion about that matter and yr own experience as a councellor.







Bisa dicek mas . http://omsid.multiply.com/

Agung
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On 18-10-2005 18:13 aponto wrote:
Agung yth,
So I just want to say that there should be a law(which will be unreal ,I know)which should protect asian women from foreigners who have certain intentions.
There are a lot of sad examples of foreigners who are/stay here,just for one purpose.
Regards
Aponto
I think the wrong intensions can come from both sides. Having a law to protect people from "wrong intensions" sounds nice, but the problem is: how do you prove in court people had wrong intensions from the start in an intimate relation?

In my idea only one thing helps: being very careful.

What governments could do: making it easier for a couple to spend time together before they're married. I think one of the problems with a mixed couple is that they only spend "holiday time" together before they get married. When the real married life starts it must be a disappointment. Unfortunately both Indonesian and many foreign governments do their best to increase this problem.




Yogya-Bali
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On 19-10-2005 09:18 sidia wrote:

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That is why I dont agree with your number (90%) in another topics.
Now I can understand the 90% , because it is abt yr clients , and yr clients are coming you not for socialvisits , they are coming because they have problems.
And also only yr clients and mixed couple Ambon-Belanda , and Indo-Belanda.
I am sure that the other mixed coupels in holland are happy with each others .


Yes, but still you have the statitics (again : talking about 15 years ago) that at that time half or even more of the mentioned mixed couples failed. Probably nowadays it will be much better cause there's a new generation standing up.
This counseling period of mina was more then 15 years ago. The nowadays problems I see are here and now in Indonesia.
But then again, ofcourse a lot of these mixed relationships do not have problems but still there are quite a few who does. Nobody can deny that. If we're talking about the numbers from the IND in Holland; these are real statistics, not some investigation from a newspaper.



Yogya-Bali
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On 19-10-2005 10:15 sidia wrote:
Yes the 90% is from one of the Nwpapers , a catolic nwpapers somewhere in the dutch rimboe or from the Telegraaf of the expats in Indonesia.


A little denigratory about the Jakarta Post. It's still one of the most independent newspapers who's not supported by some kind of religion or certain political group. Also not filled with all kind of religious crap or gossips. Another one is the Kompas (Catholic??!!) which is reasonable but still based on a certain kind of sociopolitical / religious group.



Yogya-Bali
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Anyway, good luck for the mixed couples (I am one of them) but it wouldn't be bad if people think twice to prevent a coming disaster for both. It would be much better if a lot of people had the opportunity to get to know each other and not always looking to the cultural differences but looking to the corresponding things you have in common. And if certain differences show up, there's nothing wrong then to look first to the other differences like social background, education, etc. And that means from both sides (it's not always the Indonesian partner who is the weaker part).
Amatoooooo.



papaya
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Jason,

What about her? Is he also madly in love with you? If you ask her to become a Catholic, you will know if she really loves you. You sound rather naive to me...

Papaya Emoticon: Worship


Happiness is not a destination, it's a Way of Living

Agung
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On 05-06-2005 15:47 Jason wrote:
Hi, I am an Australian guy who is madly in love with an Indonesian girl, yes she is Muslim and I am Catholic. Saya have already decided that I want to change my religion, we all believe in god, so I see no reason why changing will impact my life much and it is something I am prepared to do so I can marry the girl of my dreams. I lived in Indonesia for about 4 months; I loved the culture, the people, and my girl. I am hoping that you maybe able to guide me through the many things I must do in order to marry this girl.
I know that I must change my religion and by doing so study Islam, I must also get the circumcision done, that I am not looking forward to as I hate pain. The rest I do not yet understand, I have asked her parents for her hand in marriage already and they have asked me to learn the religion and become Muslim before this can happen, I understand all that and have no problem but from there, other than learning Bahasa, what else must I do, I know there are certain words I must say at the wedding ceremony but I am not sure what they are. Anyhow this is a great site and I hope you all can help me with some information, I apologies if you think I am getting ahead of myself but I do want to know all there is to know so I donít run into any problems along the path. Thanks Emoticon: Bye bye
Once more the subject that started all of this. When I read it again I must agree with you Papaya, our Jason is more than a bit naive. This story is part of the answer to the question why so many mixed couples fail! I hope all our forum advice has given Jason the insight to learn and think about it for some time before rushing into things as complicated as this.



senyum-man
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..... hello everybody,
i'm new comer here..... i livfe at bandung. male. 35 years old. kind regard for all of u. cheers....


Emoticon: Smile



Agung
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Welcome to you Senyum-man, Emoticon: Smile
But maybe you have some advice for our Jason, since he's the subject of this topic.

Your view would be welcome, since the item isn't well covered from your perspective.




sidik
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Talking about statistics! What about the marriages in the Netherlands? I remember figures like 30% failures. So cut the BS about mixed marriages. Emoticon: Angry


tunawisma, tunakarya, tunamasalah

Agung
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We've already found that quite a few mixed marriages are nonsense relations. I mean man of 50 with girl of 18 or man with university with girl with sekolah dasar. etc etc.

When we only take "normal" mixed marriage into account then I'm quite sure the number for these mixed marriages will be the same or even better than with marriages in general. Emoticon: Smile



Yogya-Bali
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Yes, but the problem is that there are so many mixed marriages with an unequal base. So, that still gives the figure that mixed marriages more then average are doomed to fail. Those "normal" mixed marriage will probably survive minus the 30% of common failures like in the Netherlands.



Agung
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So, for everyone that has an equal / normal mixed relation the odds are in fact not that bad. Emoticon: Smile



Yogya-Bali
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It's never bad. Sometimes a divorce can also be a relief. I always wander why people are celebrating weddings and never celebrating divorces with a big party cause a divorce set you free again.



aponto
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Dear All ,
The best women on earth come from Indonesia. Emoticon: Yes!
No doubt about that Emoticon: Nooo
Aponto Emoticon: Bye bye



Agung
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Comparing Dutch and Indonesian woman.... I do not have to think long... I agree with you Aponto. Emoticon: Smile



Yogya-Bali
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I agree also with that. Why do you think I am living in Indonesia? I wouldn't like to stay in a country where I have to face and be confrontated everyday with ugly women. But that's not the only reason.



Agung
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Hi Yogya,
my problem with Dutch woman is not that they're ugly. It's their altitude. The nearly always want to be the boss and if you allow them to be the boss then they despite you, because you're a pussy... (miaauw, miaauw...)

OK, I exaggerate a bit, but there's more truth in it than I like... Emoticon: Angry



aponto
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Yogya-Bali

But that's not the only reason
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Agung

my problem with Dutch woman is not that they're ugly. It's their altitude
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Agung/Yogya-B yth,

I think that we have the same thought about this issue. Emoticon: Yes!
Ok ,for us, the looks of a woman is important,but the inside is the most important thing.Personally I only know women from my country and find them ,as I said ,lovely.
But ,as far as I have seen and have contacts (only socially ya)belanda women,
please no,too much for my mental condition Emoticon: Yes!
Aponto



Yogya-Bali
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Well be honest, it's not only the inside. Almost everybody likes to look at the outside also. What's wrong with a beautiful woman?
A friend of mine was forced to live in a South-Asian country where he didn't like the appearance of the women. He got so depressed that he had to go for therapy to a SO-Asian country.
I would love to have a psychiatrist like that.



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Dear Aponto


Agung/Yogya-B yth,

I think that we have the same thought about this issue.
Ok ,for us, the looks of a woman is important,but the inside is the most important thing.Personally I only know women from my country and find them ,as I said ,lovely.
But ,as far as I have seen and have contacts (only socially ya)belanda women,
please no,too much for my mental condition
Aponto


There are good and bad women in every country. The outer appearance is important at the first meeting. We only know the inner after we get to know someone for some amount of time.

WJ




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