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Desi Clark
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Remember "Indonesians" on August 17.

Does anyone know exactly how long did Netherland occupy Indonesia?

Who is the dutch man that ordered to buid the longest road in Indonesia (Can;t remember the name of the road), was it Rengasdengklok? Well, his name is Daendles...did I spell it correctly?My history sucks!

And how did Indonesian get her independence?

MERDEKA!!!!
Desi Clark




Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.

Jeroen
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I don't know exactly how long Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch. But in fact the 'occupation' wasn't really seen as an occupation, only after the Japanese invaded the country in 1942. But if you count the colonial period with it, I think the total period what just over 300 years ( starting in the early 17th century, and lasting to mid-20th century)



Jeroen
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O ya,
I'm leaving for Indonesia tomorrow, and I will hopefully experience Independence day somewhere in Indonesia Emoticon: Puh!



Jeroen
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Ooh.. and the biggest road the Dutch constructed was "Jalan Raya Pos" or "Groote Post Weg".. by Deandels.

Lucky that I wasn't sleeping during my history classes 8 years ago Emoticon: Wink



wmbee
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Have a good journey, Jeroen!
What are you going to do over there, where are you going, for how long?

Ciao,

WMBee



RSTobing
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I guess Dutch occupied Indonesia for 350 years while Japan invaded it for 3.5 years, I think that's what I learned at school
and Indonesia gained its independence after the two atomic bombs were dropped which made Japan to pull off its forces all over the pacific. Then Soekarno and Muh. Hatta proclaimed the independence.

Emoticon: Smile



Jeroen
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Since it's almost Independence Day again, I think it's good to have a closer look at this topic again. Emoticon: Puh!



diederick
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De Grote Postweg was build on orders of Herman Willem Daendels, maarschalk van Holland, Gouverneur-Generaal van Nederlands-IndiŽ (1806-1810), he is also the builder of the palace that now houses the ministry of finance. He was born in Hattem and died as governor of another Dutch colony; the coast of Guinea (now Ghana). A vast number of people died making this road, which function was mainly military (in view of the threat of a British invasion which happened anyway in 1811)
Of course Indonesians celebrate their independence on the 17th of August as this was the date when Sukarno (and Hatta) issued the "proklamasi" in 1945. But in fact, according to international law, the real independence came with the transmission of sovereignty by Queen Juliana on the 27th of december 1949, signed in Amsterdam (Koninklijk Paleis on the Dam).
Then the most awkard issue; the length of the occupation of Indonesia by the Dutch. Indonesia did not exist as such when the first Dutch arrived at the end of the 16th century. In the VOC time the Dutch had only some small settlements in the archipelago, and were seen by other f.i. Javanese princes as just another entity on Java, In the middle of the 18th century the VOC obtained territories in north-east Java (the Pasisir), more or less as a "gift". From then on the VOC was part of the complicated power games in that region (mataram, surakarta, yogyakarta, madura etc.). And Indonesia did not exist even until the end of the 19th century, when the Dutch started to transfer theis possessions in the Dutch-Indies into a real colony, by reaching out to all corners of the archipelago (Bali, Atjeh, NTT, Kalimantan etc.) to impose colonial rule. In fact Indonesia as we know it is partly a colonial creation and even Sukarno and others after him aknowledged that by stating that the Republik Indonesia was the successor of the Dutch-East Indies and its territory.
So if we would speak of occupation then for the whole of Indonesia that is term we could use from, let's say, 1880 onwards. For Java a bit sooner, let's say 1840 (after the Java wars).
I leave it to that. If anybody wants to discuss this, you are off course invited.



budowono1
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proklamasi ke merdekaan cause of perjuangan .
because heroes like Sutomo Kapten Patimura. Prince Diponegoro.
and the Empire of Japan.
It where Tentara Sukarala & Heiho who liberated Indonesia.
not by diplomasi but by batle,

the night Surabaya fell nederland knew that it was over .
they came to to dutch houses and kiled every oneman wiman children it didn't mather not even the babu's where spared.
when japan came the remaining nedolanders where gathered and put to camps.
the houses where taken ampty and given to Japanees officials and Indonesia revolutionairies.
they where avrayed of us cuz we out numbered them in milions

merampas harta benda
dan membunuh
saudarmu ........................!!!
Berarti menguchuanat
Bangsa dan Tanah airmu

that was the slogan of our revolution.

We defreated Negeri Belanda .
we made Juliana Serender.

nomather what kapitalis lies negeri belanda say there word can not be trusted,
after we releaced them on augus 20th they where to be Deported but they atacked us .and stayed an other 4yrs

as a reaction of that Soekarno declared war
thats the truth the only true story

if u don't beleef read the book
Tanah Air .from Soekarno him self




budowono1
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oh ya Nippon did not invade they seported us.
Negeri Belanda Invaded us for 350 tahun

i lost 9 uncle's to the revolution my father told me the pride to his 9 older brothers who secravied everything for the Revolution.

there for i say

BANZAY DAI NIPPON



diederick
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I rest my case, your honour!



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Despite the fact that The Dutch occupied Indonesia and caused a great deal of suffering, but they also left some remarkable things as well. Around jalan menteng central jakarta and also in some parts of semarang, bandung and bogor there are beautiful old houses from the Dutch colonial era. They look so grand and beautiful, antique and old as they are. The high windows, the pale white paints, the gardens, beautiful.
Dutch cemetary in Kebun Raya Bogor is also beautiful..but the cemetery is not well-maintaned. There rest the remains of Ary Prins, Van den Bosch, and some other dutch and also British colonial officials whose names are found in history books. l know this might be offtopic but let me share this with you all. at the tombstone of Raffles's wife, l saw the heartbreaking poem:
o thou whom near my constant heart
one moment hath forgot
tho fate severe hath bid us part
yet still forget me not

In conclusion, there are two sides in a coin. Occupation indeed was not a good thing in itself, but see, it had brought the best of indonesian people. They were united to a common goal: independence. (and also, l think the Dutch architects were amazing for they built so many beautiful buildings. ) Emoticon: Bye bye


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Veer01
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I only know the 17th is my birthday.Yerun...have a nice holiday. Emoticon: Yes!



Jeroen
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Pinta,

Or something like this, in Jogja, near Stasiun KA Tugu





Jeroen
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On 13-08-2004 19:53 Veer01 wrote:
I only know the 17th is my birthday.Yerun...have a nice holiday. Emoticon: Yes!


congratulations!



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thanks. nice picture, yerun. where did you get it?

(for veer, have birthday in advance ya Emoticon: Bye bye )


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

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i mean, happy birthday.. (damn my fingers..)


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Jeroen
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On 13-08-2004 20:35 kinanti pinta wrote:
thanks. nice picture, yerun. where did you get it?

(for veer, have birthday in advance ya Emoticon: Bye bye )


made it myself last March... Emoticon: Shiny



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hmm, your photography skill is getting better and better Emoticon: Worship


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Veer01
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thanks everybody...wish we could go to Indonesia too,but yet impossible with little Jordy Emoticon: Yawn



budowono1
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yeah the koloni left nice houces that our people build
our material our people so it are our houses and have never been theres they just desighned it.
for there Air water leiding don't even work properly



bangwin
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On 13-08-2004 23:30 budowono1 wrote:
yeah the koloni left nice houces that our people build
our material our people so it are our houses and have never been theres they just desighned it.
for there Air water leiding dont even work properly


don't worry dude...nobody gonna claim that houses....just to show to other friends..that's all...



diederick
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On 13-08-2004 23:30 budowono1 wrote:
yeah the koloni left nice houces that our people build
our material our people so it are our houses and have never been theres they just desighned it.
for there Air water leiding dont even work properly

And a waterleiding you have to maintain, i guess that didn't happen a lot after 1949 until now. The Dutch are not responsable for that since the last 60 years. If your heroes can do it better, let them go at it, please also mention to them the maintenance of canals (very important!). Moreover the buildings were mainly build by chinese



Schultz
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Interessante discussie,maar niet op de juiste plek.Dit is toch de plek voor "alle nederlandse praat?" Verder discussiŽren,hoe eenzijdig en vanuit gekleurde glazen dan ook,graag op de engelse plek.OK? No hard feelings! Schultz



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Schultz, please keep the topic English.

( I start to sound like Yerun Emoticon: Wink )


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier


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