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carita2005
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Hello everyone,
I am seriously considering getting married to an indonesian lady. I am english and I want to live in Jakarta.

Are there any inconvenients I should know?

Regards,



Jeroen
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some 'inconveniences', as you can call them
-> marry her = marry the family (culture)
-> you have to get a visa to live in Indonesia, even if you are married with an Indonesian person(law)
-> your kids have to get one nationality, if non-Indonesian they have to get visa as well (law)

But well.. I don't know how far you are with your preparations though.




Veer01
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Yerun,my eperience is that you marry the family no more than in Holland...it al depends how far you wanna go yourself,but I agree that the familybond is stronger in Indonesia,something we gave up in the western world long time ago. Emoticon: Wink



Jantje
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Among some inconveniences as Jeroen already mentioned, take your conditions of marriage seriously in consideration. Thus to prevent your assets running down the drain
Because you also marry the family this may have consequences you couldnĺt imagine. And remember: family is never "ex-"



Jeroen
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Veer,

I think that family relation in Indonesia is something good in the world. That's why such a thing will probably less of a problem for me.. ooh well. I haven't thought about it yet....



Bogor
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Carita Emoticon: Bye bye
I am real Indonesia, just a liitle bit advice to you. If you marry with upper class Indonesian girl such as marry with westren girl. Because the family open mind but they are looking also from upper class husband. Or the girls from big cities as Jakarta, Bandung, Bali, Surabaya, Medan...the families mostly very fleksibel especially from educated families. Indonesian peoples still like with ceremonial that all. I have so many girls graduated from Australia, Swiss, France, they are also married with bule, until now everything running....
I make me surprise, The Bule families feeling great with Indonesian cultures & they dont complaint.
Everything depends on with who are married ?
Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile Emoticon: Smile



Veer01
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Again I agree...family is important,sometimes we forget that here in the western world.And here all runs well...family is flexible and modern and indeed love ceremonies. Emoticon: Worship



Xandria
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Hi Carita,

Marrying an Indonesian woman does not automatically grant you a semi permanent residence visa. By Indonesian Immigration Law, an Indonesian woman cannot sponsor foreign partner/spouse for Indonesian visa.
You must be employed in Indonesia. Your employer (in Indonesia) can be the visa sponsor.

Hope this helps.
Ria




papaya
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Ria,

You are wrong about this, because an Indonesian women or spouse can be a sponsor to the husband or boyfriend. I applied several times for a social budaya visa and it was granted.


Happiness is not a destination, it's a Way of Living

sascha
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But u r not allowed to work in indonesia with the social visa(officially). N i dont know what it helps to live in indonesia(assuming its permanent) but not being able to work unless u r millionair(which can buy u citizenship) or a pasha(letting ur wife work).
Emoticon: Wink



Desi Clark
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On 25-01-2005 17:49 carita2005 wrote:
Hello everyone,
I am seriously considering getting married to an indonesian lady. I am english and I want to live in Jakarta.

Are there any inconvenients I should know?

Regards,


As you know, a marriage consists 3 rings:
- engagement ring
- wedding ring
- suffering
Emoticon: Devil

Have you visited Jakarta? How do you like the weather? the Food? the People? The place.. etc etc? Try to stay there for at least 2-3 months.....If you can deal with all of them....the next step is to learn the procedures of getting married in Indonesia... and hang out with other mixed couple.

Congrats & Good luck!
Desi Clark




Effort and Courage are not enough without purpose and direction.

Veer01
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Yep...I,m really suffering now Emoticon: Puh! Emoticon: Shiny



Xandria
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Papaya,

Sosial Budaya Visa = Visa Kunjungan Sosial Budaya (VKSB) ... yeah sure, your girlfriend, spouse, boyfriend, neighbour, acquaintance can always get you this visa. I was referring to Visa/Izin menetap Sementara = Semi Residence Permit (KIM-S & KITA-s). I┤m married to a foreigner so I know what I am talking about.



carita2005
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Hello
I would just like to thank everyone for their advice.

I'll let you know when we get married.

Regards



Veer01
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I hope it will be a beautiful day...it's the best you can experience in a lifetime. Emoticon: Yes!



nona
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Dear everyone,

I am really enjoyed reading all your good story, does not matter with whom are you going to marry with, the important things love, carrying, understanding each other. I know is not easy to understand if someone marry with diffirent culture, culture something is really wonderful to know somebody else culture, make you reach.

But the important thing that's life the one you choose for, be happy and married is the same like you are gambling in your life. Life is gambling.

success for everyone.

Nona





codeby
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kind of a life ....
maried with indonesian girls,get american salary,use a germany car,don,t forget chinese food,no drugs,just whiskey Be Haapy my Friend... get a visa to live in Indonesia, ops....depends on....................

sucses....,
untouchable



Agung
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Most important problem:
=> you and any childern are not allowed to live in Indonesia.

You can organize something temporary, but be careful as regulations can change. They can get better or worse. My advise is don't bet on that and live in your own country, which can be difficult also.

Then, Family relations are different. This is not so much an issue when you live abroad, but prepare for a big phonebill.

Then if your friend is Muslim, this is another problem. If so, remind her that Muslim women are supposed to follow their husband in everything. So, she should follow you and and visa versa.

Good Luck!!

Emoticon: Smile



harto
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VKSB,
with this visum one is not allowed to work, just to be.
for a millionaire or pascha okay, but what about ordinary people ?
Note; in indonesian law there is a big dicrimination, between man and woman.
A man can marry again, without divorce
A man can bring his foreign bride legal to indonesia and his wife get immideately all permissions
A woman always need a written permissions of her parent(s) to marry
Parents, brother(s), uncle(s) can block (not-official) an adult woman to obtain a passport
In case of a divorce, it is hard for a woman to get right (except for the right to takecare for the child), like money, capital, house etc
A woman is expected to leave the country after marrying a foreigner, so structural her husband hardly gets permission to stay (matter of money and the right contacts)
Indonesian men do are awfully scared of bule-men, because of their skills and education, so in stead of going to school themselve, they simply forbid this bule-man to work
but on the other hand, indonesian men quickly search their "rights" for staying in the country of their foreign-bride and becoming immedeately member in case of social service of the new-country
Indonesian law doesnot recognize children from indonesian woman, as indonesian (in 99% of the countries these "indo's" easely get visum from the mother's country, to accompany their mother for vacation up to 3 months), nor recognize their special status

So you see it's different to be an indonesian girl or boy
harto




sidia
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Pak Harto ,
Yr point about :
1. A man can marry again --------
2 A woman always need a written permission ---
3. passport
4. in case of divorce
5. leaving the country
6.Indonesian men awfully-----
7.indonesian law
I am kesima .
In holland we say : da's kras , waar haalt die goeie man het vandaan , waar baseert hij het ?
Of course you have your proper information , please tell us , because I don't recognised all of your points.
Maybe some of yr points kan happened in the kampungs , far away from Jakarta or other big cities.
Because indonesia have also Undang2 regarding perkawinan , kewarganegaraan etc etc .





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Agung
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From experience: it is basically all true what Harto writes.

According to the Indonesian embassy this is based on the Islamic principal that man are the head of the family and therefore woman should follow their husband. Which in practice means woman have very limited rights. This also applies for Indonesian woman who aren't Muslim.

So this is discrimination BY LAW and not something out of the kampung. As a matter of fact, in the small village on Bali where my wife comes from nobody, even the local authorities, wants to believe that they really have a ridiculous law like this.

By the way, as far as I know the Indonesian government will have a look at the law on which all of this is based, in the months to come.

Let's hope and pray things will improve in the time to come.



sidia
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Agung :
Of course , it could be happened that some one have a bad experience . Specially if they don'nt know they right.
But people abroad are forgotten or not know that there are 3 laws in Indonesia.
1. Hukum Adat (jawa, Sumatra , Batak etc etc.)
2. Hukum Islam
3 Hukum Perdata
( ex Burgerlijke Wetboek = heritage from the Dutch Periode).
That is complicated matter.(even for Indonesian).
If you married with a Islamic woman , you can must go to the Kantor Agama acc. the Islamic Law and married for also indonesian law .At least registration it at the Catatan Sipil.
I don't know of all of Pak Harto writes are true , I have no answer from him.
But maybe you can give some explaination about my seven point with example and what the Indonesian law said about it.




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sidia
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Dear friends :
maybe I can give you an example .
About heritage in Indonesia.
According the Hukum waris Islam a man get 2 parts , and a woman 1 part.
If there are 2 heritors , 1 man and 1 woman , the man 2/3 part and the woman 1 /3 part. (they make this because they have their reason , and from another time ).
According the Hukum Waris Perdata the man get 1/2 and the woman 1/2 (equal).
In most occassion an Islamic heritors (as my example) can say , yes we must follow the Islamic Law because we are good muslim ,and later the brother can give his sister her part according the Perdata Law .
Now is everybody happy .Otherwise you must go to the court .
Because Indonesia according their Undang2 separate the religion and the state affair like other civilzed countries.



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harto
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Dear fellows,
let's be honest, Suharto-times in which it was almost forbidden even to talk about these things and problems are over. But please don't deny these practical problems excists. When a woman now complains, that there is a discrimination by law in Indonesia, I can only wonder, is she so ashamed by this situation, that she simply deny it, so it doesnot excist ? Or was she so "pinter" to use money and certain contacts to avoid these practical problems and after that regard it as not-excisting-problem. Like the rich in Indonesia with his full belly say: No, we aren't hungry in Indonesia, just look at me !

What I want is to open discussion in hope to salve this injustice of discrimination one day. It will strenghten the position of woman. Denying doesn't bring us forward.
harto



sidia
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Pak Harto Yth ,
As I write there is some friction between Hukum Islam and Hukum Perdata
(ex BW).Everyone is free to make his/her own choise
But donot blame the state , maybe you can blame the administration.
The State is based on several principles , like the Undang2 1945 etc .(grondwet).
Indonesia separate (at least they try) the relious and state affairs.
In this forum we can learn from each ather , we can give opinion,information , but everone must try to give proper and fair information.
My comment about yr points :
1. about poligamy , it is forbidden by law ( but there are 2 laws)
Even the Islamic law have also restriction.
Pse : read Undang2 Perkawinan no 1 1974 , spec Pasal 4 dan pasal 5.
2 It is a kind formality , consulting and hoping of their blessing.
(even in Holland is beterif you "consult " yr family)
But if you 21 (meerderjarig ) you are free to choise.
About written " permit " : only for documentation(ambtenarij)
3abt : pasport : According the law (21jr) you are free.
4.Abt Divorce : A woman is also protected by the law , and of course donot forget her family , they can make trouble.
5.abt leaving country , give me an example .
abt foreign partner : yes of course he need A permit.
If you(dutch) wil live abroad , you must have a permit, even in the EU you have face some formalties.
6.Abt jealouzy : are you serious ?
A common worker (tukang becak, supir taxi , arbeiders etc) and some poor peole will be welcome the foreigner (not only bule as you write) , because it means work, income , and a poor indonesian men is happy if his sister/daughter can marry a foreigner(not only bule) , maybe can de daughter get a better live.
Comparing poor/unskilled people with rich , well educated foreigner is not fair .
about the other indonesianmen (middleclass or higher , rich & well educated) , they dont care.(i think) .
7.In civilized country get everyone their right.(by law , not always but almost)
If a foreigner from a poor country have right to live in another (rich) country , than you must respect it.
(see also yr own undang undang : Vreemdelingen Wet).
8. about status child from mixcouple : see the Undang undang Kewarganegaraa. no 62 thn 1958 (also thn 1962).

si Dia YMH



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