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budowono1
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for the people that have comented me aboud my reasons that i am in Negeri Belanda don't worry im going back to Indonesia in July.
than my Akademy training is finished soi can go back Home.
And there i will follow a English cource at UNIKA ATMA-JAYA.
because i know i need to improove my english but for long time i refused to speek that dispicefull lenguage but it seems nesicery if i want to continue my militairy carere.
It's just a mater of time till i may go back home and serve the Motherland in my full glory Emoticon: Shiny



Albert
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A spellingscheck in MsWord can do miricles for your English.


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

Jeroen
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I don't think there is a check for Bahasa Englindolanda Emoticon: Wink



diederick
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He writes " serve my motherland in my full glory" without any failure. i always suspect that our dear Budowono aka Shuisheng aka Aangirfan, can write better English then he actually does. He likes to tease, as a rebel without any cause.



budowono1
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Fack you diedrik i am not shuisheng what is a Aangirfan don't kae up your jeterish like i sayd before i can do better engrish but i dispice that lenguage so why shy any efford in speek lenguage of my enamie,
What Rebbel i not rebbel i am Loyal son of Mothereland.
and i am prepair to die For republik indonesia if neciceiry
my cause to Unite the Greater south East Asia.
To make the enamies of Republik Indonesia pay for there crimes.
i am a pacifist but i beleef in justice and rule by Iron fist



Amadeus
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Selamat jalan Budowono. Emoticon: Bye bye
Mengabdi nusa dan bangsa. Serve your country Emoticon: Stupid
Ganti senjata apimu dg bambu runcing
Change your weapon with " Bambu runcing " Emoticon: Stupid
Merdekaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Salam saking mbak Amadeus.
PS: Belajar bahasa Inggris yang bagus , ya mas....



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people take cover!!
the omen is gonna be back here! Emoticon: Devil


Slightly older, hopefully wiser, absolutely prettier

Jeroen
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ooh... even a simple fuck you is too difficult for you Shui eeh.... Budo?



budowono1
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Republik Indonesia is become weak cause Democrati.
we dont need internationlism nor Democrati we need
militairism and order for over 50 yrs Republik Indonsia kept order
but by the new gerverment Indonesia change.
I hate the new goverment they are weak fools.
1st Habibi than a Incompitend blind man and than a Women ....!
non of them are capable to rule maybe order will be restored now the militairy is back in charge.

we dont need United nations nieghter do we need ASEAN or the WTO
Indonesia has evry thing .
Our own clothes
our own food
we have herbs plants Tabaco Tea .
we have gold.Silver . Jems.Diamond.
WE have Uranium .
We have a Amrmy of 35 milion .
we have a own weapon production
We have our own Law and rules.
we don't need international comunity

so it was written by Soekarno and M.Hatta this is what the Indonesia constitution says and i will seport it and do what i have to even eliminate those who apoces Republik indonesia even if it's are my own country men this is how you show the world power by giving demonstrations to those who apose us so they will know there faith if they try .Soetomo once sayd :
(we Indonesia people are pacifist from nature but if we are profocet or atacked we will fight to defend our selves but if we fight we fight to Win) pwerfull words of a powerfull man with greath honour and dignity they used to call Indonesia the country of the war lords well
that eara is going to be restored


That is all



diederick
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Dear Budowono,

I am not impressed. Your recollection of Indonesian history is clearly a distorted one, and also very contradictionary. I will not go in to that further.
Anyway, blessing to your splendid isolation (if your weapon production is of that fine quality as the airplanes of mr Habibi, I am confident that nobody is really concerned). But first you have to hand in your commission as an officer of the Indonesian army if you really think the Indonesian government consists of fools. It it this government you are serving as a military. Can't it get in to your head? You just follow the orders of your legally chosen government, in a professional manner, and that is it.
If a man on Ambon can be sentenced to nine year imprisonment for treason if he hoist a RMS flag, then surely you should be punished severely for high-treason to the Republic of Indonesia
P.S.
I know a Fak-Fak in Papua. You don't mean to send me there?



Jeroen
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Budo,

If every foreigner was to leave Indonesia tomorrow, the economy would collapse late in the afternoon. This has nothing to do with Indonesia, it's something called globalisation.

Go take some sleep, go back to your country and adapt to normal life again. It's pretty obvious that you had a blow from the windmill, not a blow from the windmill lady Emoticon: Talk to the hand



diederick
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And he has also a blow of the Gooi. Suddenly it came to me that this fack you sound quite "bekakt".



budowono1
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If a man on Ambon can be sentenced to nine year imprisonment for treason if he hoist a RMS flag, then surely you should be punished severely for high-treason to the Republic of Indonesia
P.S.
[/quote]

I am not traytor i follow Republik Indonesia.
Even though i dispice the New goverment if Golkar or the Jenderals of Indonesia where to coup i will seport them.

for i follow the rules of Panca-sila the written by the Originional Indonesia goverment the laws written by Achmad Soekarno are the only laws i follow i don'r simpatice with Arab's neighter the West nor do i Simpatice with Religionairy goverment groups.
Indonesia is a country build up by war and should be run by the militairy as it always have been.

the new goverment are the once that betrayed us i voted For ibu Mega cause i thaught that if a Soekarno would rule Indonesia agayn every thing woul be restored i never beleefed in her nor did beleef in PDI-Perjuangan i beleeft in the greatnes of the Soekarno Dynasty.
not in Demokrasi or ibu mega.
we made a mistake to beleef that indonesia would be the same Mega should be a shame to call her Soekarno.
Her father was the greatest politician and leader ever but she brought shame upon the Name Soekarno she shown Emotion and human weaknes 3 dangerous aspecs that a leader can never have.
i memoriced the Indonesia law and constitution.
What i do is the in the indonesia way
acording to our hero's .

(Soekarno.Hatta.Soetomo.Jenderal Sudirman. jenderal Nasution.
Muhammad Suharto) i am 100% loyal to Republik Indonesia
I would die for RI if orderd to never call me a traytor i sepeort indonesia 100% and i dispice the Capitalist lies spreaden aboud us by the west and Osutaralia.



Jeroen
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So what are you doing on this very bad capitalist forum then? It's really a bad forum you know, people are allowed to speak freelyhere.. Disguisting, right? Damn capitalist forum this is. Emoticon: Talk to the hand



budowono1
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that not what i sayd.
I say the outside world making capitalist lies aboud us.
CNN. BBC.NBC.Al-Jazera.RTL4. Time USA today .Algemeen Dagblad.they are all spreading capitalist lies aboud us .
that is Bung-karno thought us that Capitalism Emperialism and the West are evil and are spreading vicious Kontra-Indonesia lies.
for instance they sperad lies aboud G30s.
how could they know there is no one alive to tell aboud it the news aboud that incident never left Indonesia so there so called news is just speculation and lies to ruin the our name to Make Republik-Indonesia look bad they call us terorists but they are the terorists they atacked us we where at peopce and harmoni.
the terorist Allan pope bombed Kalimantan with no reason.
G30s kost 12times more people died than in the Vietnam war.
1948 Australian troups bombt surabaya and burned and plunderd kampung's but here in the west they teach there kids that we did these thing that we where wrong those are lies by the capitalist
the Dutch capitulation 17.08.1945 they still don't eccept there defeath they make up a nice story that they granted us indipendance .
Bull we fauhgt we Defeated and anihalated our enamiesthat is What Republik-indonesia is aboud that is why we need militairism it was build by militairism and it can not serfive with out that is what really happend America & united nations colabarated to the murder of our leader and father of our nation Achmad Soekarno.
it was there capitalist lies that ruined President Suharto and there the cause of all the Chaos not Indonesia Govermen but Negeri Belanda.
America. Ostaralia.Greath britain. United Nations. and the monkey Koffi Aman they are to blame but the problem is that they don't wan't to eccept reality they are avrayd that if we grow strong no one can stop us so there surpressing us our Economi our welfair .
but they can not brake us cause we don't care aboud capitalism.
every one has food every one has a hous every one has clothes and
we have a social comunity we don't need faluta he have eachother.
indonesia has order and controll that is what a country should be aboud perfect coordination between goverment militairy and People



Albert
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How do you destroy all happiness inside of you and fill it with hate and let hate rule your life?

Just ask Budowono?


Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

Amadeus
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I do agree Albert, he's just a sad clown. Probably north Korea is a better place for Budowono instead of indonesia Emoticon: Bye bye



budowono1
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On 02-12-2004 19:49 Albert wrote:
How do you destroy all happiness inside of you and fill it with hate and let hate rule your life?

Just ask Budowono?


like i sayd befor i come from a militairy family my grandfather faught in the revolution he lost 9 sons there .
my grandmother died out of a broken heard when my father was killed in 1993. 10 of 12 children that was to much.

and after the war my family was hunted down by former colony and british militairy cause my grandfather was a member of the Japanese delegation he got arested and hung by the murdering Knil veterans.

My fahter always thaught to be a soldier be to be brave and willing to defend indonesia like his brave older brothers.

when suharto fell Jakarta was in chaos my i lived at my uncle house.
my uncle (M.J) Sutio . after t suharto fell my life became a hell
after the Timor-timur incident my uncle was placed Non-active by Gusdur with and beeing acused of coruption and murder.
al he ever did was following orders.
i joined the army when i was old enaugh to so i could be a soldier like my father before me.

so why am i so hatefull ?
because my father was killed when i was 9 because my family was ruined we lost our land our social status and rank



Albert
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I that is really true I can understand.

But nevertheless let somebody remove the hate out of you, before it will destroy you.
Or before you do something wrong and you will end up into prission. In prission the strongest guy rules in there and if you are not stronger you will have a big problem.

All your hate will not change the past.

Also some of my family members are killed but by the Japs. My parents learned me not to hate them.
There are also many Dutch people who lost family to the Germans, but they do not teach their children to hate them. Some do but not all.

Hate will never solve any problems.



Wil je ook meester van je eigen leven zijn? http://www.goudenera.nl

diederick
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Dear Budowono,

Maybe it is now time to do some research on the claims you made about your family-history.
Am i right that your grandfather is: (Breh) Shall Yaya Wardhana Hadiningrat? Of which "japanese delegation" was he a member (not the delegation to Vietnam with Sukarno, Hatta and Radjiman Wediodiningrat I guess). And where was he hanged by Knil-militaries? Why don't I find him in the list of Indonesian national heroes (because he should be a member!).
Then your uncles, where they killed around august 1946 in Serpong? At that moment the "Veluwebataljon" of 8.R.I. (8th regiment Infantery) had operations there, and they claim they killed 1000 TRI soldiers and Japanese (freeing 250 Chinese btw).
Shuisheng brougth already this same story. How is that possible?



budowono1
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On 03-12-2004 16:04 diederick wrote:
Dear Budowono,

Maybe it is now time to do some research on the claims you made about your family-history.
Am i right that your grandfather is: (Breh) Shall Yaya Wardhana Hadiningrat? Of which "japanese delegation" was he a member (not the delegation to Vietnam with Sukarno, Hatta and Radjiman Wediodiningrat I guess). And where was he hanged by Knil-militaries? Why dont I find him in the list of Indonesian national heroes (because he should be a member!).
Then your uncles, where they killed around august 1946 in Serpong? At that moment the "Veluwebataljon" of 8.R.I. (8th regiment Infantery) had operations there, and they claim they killed 1000 TRI soldiers and Japanese (freeing 250 Chinese btw).
Shuisheng brougth already this same story. How is that possible?


My Grandfather was the chairman of the tobac onderneming when the revolution started he turned in the Dutch people he was working for to the japanese Koalion goverment and became a member of Delegasi Yoshida. on the first night of the Revolution he gathert all the his men from the Tabaco fields and turned agaynst the dutch taking evry thing they could took he moved in to the Dutch Vila and became owner of the land. After the war he had to leave his land and had to flee cause the former colonist wanted to triel him for war crimes he got arested and trield in a Tribunal and got found guilty for murder and coruption they hung him and killed my father was 3 at the time. my grandfather was not reciniced as a national hero he was a Romosha officers but in that time our family name was still Lim.
He changed it after the war

My uncles where killed threw out the entire war my oldes uncle died in 1943 serving Romusha and some other died serving Pelopor.
My great uncle ado died in 1944 he was 16 than.
Oom Danci died blowing up a Knil convoi 1948.
They all died on the batle field.
my grandftathers children that serfivewd the war where my father Shuisheng's mother

i was raised n the shadow of my brave uncles.
still trying to fill there shoos and make name of my own no longer as
the son of Let-kol Budowono or as the grandsonson of Yohannes.Sugeng.Lim but as Nugroho budi budowono.
that shuisheng says it cause cause we have the same tragic family history we have the same destany.

that is why i want to show the world i am Nugroho budi Budowono
not lim or son of let-kol Budowono but me Nunu






diederick
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Budowono,
Now you're talking!
First your grandfather Johannes Sugeng Lim (a catholic chinese i guess, family of the Sampoerna founder?). From your information, he seems an opportunist, seizing the property of others, not for nationalistic gains, but just for himself. You say he was tried by a tribunal. I guess you mean the Hooggerechtshof van Nederlands-IndiŰ. His filepapers are certainly preserved (I suggest you pay a visit to het Nationaal Archief in Den Haag, while you are still in the Netherlands, if you want to pay respect to the heritage of your grandfather. I warn you, maybe you will be shocked, being confronted with the facts). Still I want to know whicht tobacco company and where (in East-Java). He was convicted for murder? Can you elaborate on that? He changed his name after the war? You mean the 2nd worldwar I guess. So why is he not in the Pantheon of National Heroes? I have no knowledge of a delegasi Yoshida. What did they do? I know a Yoshida, who was minister of Foreign Affairs of Japan in 1951.
Then your uncles. I found on the internet a website commemorating, amonst others, romusha's who died doing slave-labour for the Japanese in Banjarmassin; Mr. Lie Yoe Lim, Mr. Liem Tjoey Se
Mr. Liem Tjoei Tek. Is that family? Some of the deaths of uncles you mention happened clearly through Japanese hands (all deaths before 1945). So you cannot blame the Dutch for that. You should blame your heroes, the Japanese, who killed hundreds of thousands Indonesians.
Can you give me dates and places of your uncles who died as member of Barisan Pelopor (for other readers a Japanese youth organisation, especially active in the infamous Bersiap period)?
Your uncle Danci blew up a KNIL convoy at 1948? Where, and was it a KNIL convoy? Considering the year it was a KL convoy, as far as my knowledge goes.
Earlier you sead that almost all your UNCLES died, now you speak of great uncles. I am a bit confused because a great uncle is for me a brother of my grandparents.




diederick
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Budowono,
Now you're talking!
First your grandfather Johannes Sugeng Lim (a catholic chinese i guess, family of the Sampoerna founder?). From your information, he seems an opportunist, seizing the property of others, not for nationalistic gains, but just for himself. You say he was tried by a tribunal. I guess you mean the Hooggerechtshof van Nederlands-IndiŰ. His filepapers are certainly preserved (I suggest you pay a visit to het Nationaal Archief in Den Haag, while you are still in the Netherlands, if you want to pay respect to the heritage of your grandfather. I warn you, maybe you will be shocked, being confronted with the facts). Still I want to know whicht tobacco company and where (in East-Java). He was convicted for murder? Can you elaborate on that? He changed his name after the war? You mean the 2nd worldwar I guess. So why is he not in the Pantheon of National Heroes? I have no knowledge of a delegasi Yoshida. What did they do? I know a Yoshida, who was minister of Foreign Affairs of Japan in 1951.
Then your uncles. I found on the internet a website commemorating, amonst others, romusha's who died doing slave-labour for the Japanese in Banjarmassin; Mr. Lie Yoe Lim, Mr. Liem Tjoey Se
Mr. Liem Tjoei Tek. Is that family? Some of the deaths of uncles you mention happened clearly through Japanese hands (all deaths before 1945). So you cannot blame the Dutch for that. You should blame your heroes, the Japanese, who killed hundreds of thousands Indonesians.
Can you give me dates and places of your uncles who died as member of Barisan Pelopor (for other readers a Japanese youth organisation, especially active in the infamous Bersiap period)?
Your uncle Danci blew up a KNIL convoy at 1948? Where, and was it a KNIL convoy? Considering the year it was a KL convoy, as far as my knowledge goes.
Earlier you sead that almost all your UNCLES died, now you speak of great uncles. I am a bit confused because a great uncle is for me a brother of my grandparents.




budowono1
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yes that may be so but when i sayd great uncle i ment great in name .
for i ment great as in tarific brave. not great in the context as in my grandfathers brother. and yes actualy my grand father was a Catholic chinees.i give the blame of my uncles deaths to the dutch militairy cause they where the once that actualy killed them in batle.
Japan just gave the orders ti go to the batle field.
i was always thaught that the once that where arested by the Romusha and killed where traytors and counter revolutionairies that seported the colony.

perhaps oom Danci blew up a Kl convoy( it was a dutch convoy)
asfar as that maters to me KNIL KL it's the same it was both indies-infantry i wasn't bron yet so i could have mistaken.

as for the dates and places.
oom ado died in mojokerto 1944 he was 16 than.
Oom Danci died blowing up a dutch convoi 1948.
oom eddy died 1947 in Surabaya as pelopor.
oom johny died in makasar 1943.
oom harto died on a japanese troup ship 1945
oom yohanes died in jakarta 1948
oom Leo was killed by mester jansen in 1942 wich was the reason for my grand father to kill Mr jansen.
oom Jonah died in Jakarta 1942 he was 13 and tentara pemuda.
oom erwin died 1948 in a dutch camp
oom Tommy died also at the dutch camp 1948 he was 17



budowono1
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they beleefd in the revolotuin they beleefd in Indonesia.
they all wanted Indipendance and held it more precious than life it self. they died fighting for freedom and my grandfather in that time was a well respected and powerfull man




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